Energy bills are 'unfair to some' - Ofgem

Cardew

Gareth56 wrote: »

It's not only me that thinks OFGEM are as useful as a chocolate fire guard when it comes to protecting the interests of energy consumers there are far far better informed people than me (and dare I say it even YOU!!!) who also belive OFGEM are pathetic and toothless.

I really don't want to get into a dispute over this, but I really can't see the point you are making.

Certainly I would like to see the Regulator have wider powers(teeth); in fact I was totally against an essential industry being privatised - "selling off the family silver" to quote someone more famous than I;)

Actually if you look at Ofgems powers, they are very strong in certain areas particularly on any form of misconduct, and any evidence of a cartel would be referred for criminal action. The OFT would also be involved.

You linked Ofgem's lack of action and a cartel; and their inability to deal "with what appears to be a cartel"

If you are now withdrawing that allegation of a cartel, I fail to see the relevance of your first posts. Or do you maintain the Ofgem and Parliamentary investigations were flawed?

So I can get my "facts straight", can you please tell me those 'facts' I have misunderstood;)

Every serious report I have read on the Utility companies, clears them of overcharging or 'price fixing'. Their profit margins are modest in percentage terms and even if they were forced to make zero profit, it would hardly dent what we pay - £tens pa reduction on average bills of £1,200.

The criticisms in the Ofgem report are largely how certain groups of customer should be treated.
For instance the Big 6 bosses in their evidence to the Parliamentary Commission all pointed out that the additional costs in servicing pre-pay accounts justified a higher tariff, and the Committee accepted that argument.

However Ofgem have correctly pointed out that in general pre-pay customers were less well off, and have stated that they believe they should not pay more than DD customers.

This will not have any impact on the Utility companies as it will simply be a cross-subsidy; DD/quarterly paying customers will pay a little more to subsidise the pre-pay customers. This is actually what the non-profit making Ebico have been doing for years; their tariffs are most beneficial to pre-pay customers.

DGJsaver

Cartel , maybe not , deliberatly confusing and bewildering array of tariffs yes , and that what needs sorting , not their profits

Cardew

DGJsaver wrote: »

Cartel , maybe not , deliberatly confusing and bewildering array of tariffs yes , and that what needs sorting , not their profits

Couldn't agree more!

Confusion marketing rules!!

Huge numbers of customers are switching to accounts that are actually more expensive. Some of these no doubt because of the lure of cashback/'free' champagne, but many because they are confused.

1carminestocky

The 'utility companies aren't that profitable' argument is IMO a redundant one. These are essentially conglomerates encompassing a myriad of other businesses and it's not beyond the realms of accountants to be 'creative', is it? And the fact is these companies, by their very nature, are incredibly wasteful of resources even compared to the once-derided (but now increasingly sadly missed) nationalised energy companies. Why, you ask? Surely private enterprise HAS to be more efficient.

Well, let's look at the Big 6 and observe they all have a fairly huge retentions dept (wouldn't be needed under nationalisation), they all have a huge sales dept (wouldn't be needed under nationalisation), they pay massive sweeteners to their affiliate associates, like the notorious switching sites and the various cashback sites (woudn't be needed). They also pay commission to their sales agents and door knockers (or to give them their proper title, 'peddlars of untruths' :rolleyes: ). ALL these expenses are in response to there being a private market for an essential service that shouldn't exist IMO.

Gareth56

Cardew wrote: »

I really don't want to get into a dispute over this, but I really can't see the point you are making.

Certainly I would like to see the Regulator have wider powers(teeth); in fact I was totally against an essential industry being privatised - "selling off the family silver" to quote someone more famous than I;)

Actually if you look at Ofgems powers, they are very strong in certain areas particularly on any form of misconduct, and any evidence of a cartel would be referred for criminal action. The OFT would also be involved.

You linked Ofgem's lack of action and a cartel; and their inability to deal "with what appears to be a cartel"

If you are now withdrawing that allegation of a cartel, I fail to see the relevance of your first posts. Or do you maintain the Ofgem and Parliamentary investigations were flawed?

So I can get my "facts straight", can you please tell me those 'facts' I have misunderstood;)

Every serious report I have read on the Utility companies, clears them of overcharging or 'price fixing'. Their profit margins are modest in percentage terms and even if they were forced to make zero profit, it would hardly dent what we pay - £tens pa reduction on average bills of £1,200.

The criticisms in the Ofgem report are largely how certain groups of customer should be treated.
For instance the Big 6 bosses in their evidence to the Parliamentary Commission all pointed out that the additional costs in servicing pre-pay accounts justified a higher tariff, and the Committee accepted that argument.

However Ofgem have correctly pointed out that in general pre-pay customers were less well off, and have stated that they believe they should not pay more than DD customers.

This will not have any impact on the Utility companies as it will simply be a cross-subsidy; DD/quarterly paying customers will pay a little more to subsidise the pre-pay customers. This is actually what the non-profit making Ebico have been doing for years; their tariffs are most beneficial to pre-pay customers.

Yes of course you're absolutely right. I don't know what I was thinking suggesting that that wounderful consumer champion OFGEM was remotely uninterested in the plight of energy consumers.

All hail to OFGEM long may they champion the cause of the energy consumer!

How's that OFGEM friendly enough!:rotfl:

Cardew

Gareth56 wrote: »

Yes of course you're absolutely right. I don't know what I was thinking suggesting that that wounderful consumer champion OFGEM was remotely uninterested in the plight of energy consumers.

All hail to OFGEM long may they champion the cause of the energy consumer!

How's that OFGEM friendly enough!:rotfl:

Not good enough I am afraid!

Nobody is defending Ofgem, I just cannot see the point of your posts in this context.

Explain please, for our benefit, what you want Ofgem to do in this case?

How have they failed the Energy consumer?

Do you accept there is no cartel?

Gareth56

Cardew wrote: »

Not good enough I am afraid!

Oh well we can't have everything we want.

Cardew wrote: »

Nobody is defending Ofgem, I just cannot see the point of your posts in this context.

And I can't see the point in OFGEM.

mech_2

1carminestocky wrote: »

The 'utility companies aren't that profitable' argument is IMO a redundant one. These are essentially conglomerates encompassing a myriad of other businesses and it's not beyond the realms of accountants to be 'creative', is it? And the fact is these companies, by their very nature, are incredibly wasteful of resources even compared to the once-derided (but now increasingly sadly missed) nationalised energy companies. Why, you ask? Surely private enterprise HAS to be more efficient.

Well, let's look at the Big 6 and observe they all have a fairly huge retentions dept (wouldn't be needed under nationalisation), they all have a huge sales dept (wouldn't be needed under nationalisation), they pay massive sweeteners to their affiliate associates, like the notorious switching sites and the various cashback sites (woudn't be needed). They also pay commission to their sales agents and door knockers (or to give them their proper title, 'peddlars of untruths' :rolleyes: ). ALL these expenses are in response to there being a private market for an essential service that shouldn't exist IMO.

So come on, show us some figures. Prices fell year-on-year for over a decade after privatisation. How come?

And how does Ebico figure in that theory? Are you saying they offer cashback incentives and have huge sales and retention departments?

Pssst

Ofgem are the same useless outfit who for years have cut the operating budgets of the major Gas Transporters to the point where they could no longer replace old gas mains which had come to end of life. The result was a series of explosions in which people died. They then panicked,knew they were to blame and so gave the green light to the Gas transporters (transco/National Gird) to replace loads of mains hence all the digging you might see around you !

They are just pen pushing bureacrats who have gone way beyond their remit and are now actually a real threat to consumers AND worst of all,public safety.

Gareth56

And I thought it was just me who thought that OFGEM was useless

Wasn't it at an OFGEM bash that that idiot from EON made that sick joke about making even more money from the energy companies raising there prices?

I wonder if the big nobs at OFGEM joined in with the laughter!