Any Planning Experts Out There ??

Somerset

This question is about granny annex accomodation. We've got a large shed/garage at the bottom of our garden which is falling down. We got a local council planning officer out to have a look and said'what can we do with it'. The planning person suggested annex accomodation - he could see it was falling down - it's quite a distance from the main house - he said they didn't normally like annex accomodation that far from the house but ' a building's already there ' so it should be ok. I accept this wasn't a definitive decision -just an opinion ( but from someone who should know )
Planning application went in for conversion of shed to annex accomodation but was rejected. Firstly, because the annex was too far from the house and secondly because the existing building isn't capable of being converted because it's falling down ( beyond redemption ).
On speaking to the Council again they now say knocking down and rebuilding the existing shed ( not annex accom ) may not even need planning permission if it complies with floor space % 4metres pitched/3 metres flat roof and buildings not more than 50% of garden. I looked up 'permitted development' on the web and it confirms this. However it also says 'detached annexes, outbuildings for additional accom provided it is used by a close association with, and not independently of the main house is permitted'. It goes on to talk about elderly relatives etc. It doesn't say ANYTHING about how far away from the house they can be/have to be.
I'm confused as hell Is the Council right ? Or the permitted development definition s right ? Do I need planning permission or don't I ? How can the Council turn it down if both elements seperately are permitted developments exempt from planning permission ?
Any experts out there - HELP ??

Somerset

Ok - it was the 'experts' bit that put you off . Seriously, does anyone know anything ?

Thanks

BobProperty

First post on here (as I just found the property forum). The question is what do you want to achieve? You appear to be able to use the permitted development rules and that will allow you to build a structure of a limited size. What I think you can't do is make it self contained, hence the "not independently of the main house". Otherwise everyone would be building 1 bed bungalows in their back gardens under permitted development rules.

lush_walrus

Ok, I might be able to help a bit. The first thing for you to know is that planning is partly down to interpretation, so anything on the edge of needing permission, go to the council, get a duty planning officer to look at your proposals and if he/she states that you do not need planning permission, ask them to put it in writing for you so that you are covered. Otherwise when you come to sell your house and the solicitor questions whether it needs permission you will possibly face unnecissary complications.

Firstly, do not refer to it as a granny annex, but refer to it as a summer house or a garden building. Effectively, the same use ie: both can be self contained, but planners generally prefer those terms as they sound more like occassional use.

1. Permitted development rights are not applicable if your property is in a conservation area or listed, so if your property is either of those you will need to apply for planning permission.

2. The fact that the new build will be 4m high, will put you on the cusp of requiring planning permission. Officially it states that anything 4m high will require planning permission. An option would be to reduce the height by 20mm and no permission required! But be careful to take into account any variation in ground surface, and take into account the lands highest point.

3. Where is it in relation to your boundary? If it is within 2m of the boundary at any point you will need permission.

4. Has your house been extended previously? When measuring the volume limits you need to base it on the original size, not the size as it stands now with an extension that was built last year, if you see what I mean.

The rules for volume are:

Terraced/ End of terrace house the volume of the ''original house'' If the new building will be increased by more than 10% or 50 cubic metres (whichever is the greater) you will need permission.

Any other house, the volume of the ''original house'' will be increased by more than 15% or 70 cubic metres (whichever is the greater); you will need permission.

Or if the volume of the ''original house'' will be increased by more than 115 cubic metres.

If it still appears that you do not require planning permission the next consideration is whether the new building comes within 5m of another building on your property, ie a detached garage. Do you have any other buildings on the land other than the house and the building to be demolished? If not ignore this, if you do then you will need to include this in your volume calcs and the volume of the garage etc, will go against your allowance.

Check all of the above, one by one and if you think you comply with each then go to your planning department and ask for them to look at your plans and confirm in writing that permission is not required. Or send them your plans and a cover letter stating how you comply with each of the points, and ask them to confirm that permission is not required. Whichever way, get it in writing!


If you require any further info, the place to look is in the 'Householders guide to planning permission' or something like that. It may be available on line, but most planning departments also have copies you can take with you. Look at Section 2, that is the area which applies to you as its regarding buildings within residential land.

I'm not a planner, but very used to dealing with them!

Somerset

lush_walrus wrote:

Firstly, do not refer to it as a granny annex, but refer to it as a summer house or a garden building. Effectively, the same use ie: both can be self contained, but planners generally prefer those terms as they sound more like occassional use.

I think the Coucil will go for any outbuilding description. It's fairly rural with locals having sheds, barns, animal buildings etc. The aim was to make the building capable of being 'stayed in' by guests, family etc - but not lived in permanently. It sounds like this is a no no ?

1. Permitted development rights are not applicable if your property is in a conservation area or listed, so if your property is either of those you will need to apply for planning permission.

I'm actually checking this now ( waiting for a call back re AONB ) but at moment think it's ok.

3. Where is it in relation to your boundary? If it is within 2m of the boundary at any point you will need permission.

Current building is right on boundary but we'll demolish the old and the new can be further back. Are you sure it's 2m ? thought it was 1m - I'll check and make sure it's far enough away.

4. Has your house been extended previously? When measuring the volume limits you need to base it on the original size, not the size as it stands now with an extension that was built last year, if you see what I mean.

It's a converted ( small ) barn so, original size

The rules for volume are:

Any other house, the volume of the ''original house'' will be increased by more than 15% or 70 cubic metres (whichever is the greater); you will need permission.

Or if the volume of the ''original house'' will be increased by more than 115 cubic metres.

The Council officer and the web stuff I've seen say, if it's an outbuilding, as long as the total 'buildings' on the site don't exceed 50% of the site, it's ok. I thought the volume rules related to an addition to the house ( which this is not ) . Is this wrong ?

If it still appears that you do not require planning permission the next consideration is whether the new building comes within 5m of another building on your property, ie a detached garage. Do you have any other buildings on the land other than the house and the building to be demolished? If not ignore this, if you do then you will need to include this in your volume calcs and the volume of the garage etc, will go against your allowance.

There's a polytunnel right beside it. I assume I include this in the 'buildings' calculation ? Apart from that just a normal garden shed, paths, pond.

Thanks for that. I'm just confused and peeved that the Council planner 'advised ' me to go one route ( he's left the Council ) when there wasn't a hope of getting the planning permission, and now it seems a different way would have been more appropriate ( and cost less !! )