Kaupthing Edge, Should I Avoid?

codger

poppy10 wrote: »

Grab your money from Kaupthung while you can..... Icesave have stopped anyone withdrawing money from their accounts; you'll have to apply to the Icelandic compensation scheme and then the FSCS and then wait for them to sort out if and when they will pay back your money.

I'm sorry, but this kind of post simply isn't helpful at all. Not only does it not reflect the facts, it's out of step with fast-moving events, viz:

1) A few days ago, on here and on other threads, I repeatedly pointed out that savings with Kaupthing Edge are actually deposited with KE's UK subsidiary, and so were covered by the UK's FSCS. IceSave never was in the same situation -- which was why I never went anywhere near it.

2) A few days ago, also, the question of "novation" was raised by some sensible MSErs. The novation issue arose because although KE's online web page assured savers that in "the unlikely event" their savings would be migrated out to Kaupthing Edge itself -- and thus out from under FSCS protection -- at least 30 days' advance warning of same would be given -- yet the actual KE Terms & Conditions omitted any such reference to a 30-day period (in fact, the T&Cs appeared to suggest that migration of savings accounts could be effective from date-of-notice.)

3) I wasn't the only MSEr to be concerned about this ambiguity. Either you get 30 days' notice. Or you don't. So I posted here about the need -- at this of all times -- for absolute clarity.

4) I also contacted Kaupthing Edge about the matter. I'm pretty sure, I wasn't the only MSEr to do so. Pending clarification by KE of the novation issue, I transferred out 95% of savings held in my KE account.

5) Kaupthing Edge has now acted as follows:

a) It has deleted all reference to novation in its T&Cs;

b) It has deleted all reference to novation in its online Help page FAQ;

c) The KE Chairman has taken the trouble to pen a personal statement on KE's website, of which a key section of text reads as follows:


Your Financial Protection

Your funds are deposited with Kaupthing Edge, which is a UK bank and regulated by the Financial Services Authority here in the UK. With effect from Tuesday 7 October, your first £50,000 of deposits are protected by the UK Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) as with any other UK Bank. Your deposits are permanently held here in the UK.

The phrase "your deposits are permanently held here in the UK" removes, at a stroke, the dangerous ambiguity that had previously arisen.

In light of that, I have today transferred BACK TO KAUPTHING EDGE's UK SUBSIDIARY the monies that were previously withdrawn, pending clarification of that novation situation.

I have done so because I have always enjoyed the best service, the best rates and the best online account management of any provider thanks to Kaupthing Edge.

I have also done so because unlike umpteen other financial institutions I could name here, KE has in my opinion acted quickly, fairly, and responsibly, and taken the trouble to issue a corporate communication that isn't fraught with bankers' double-speak.

Obviously every MSEr will have a different take on the current situation. But my position -- where, if the worst came to the worst, then 100% of my savings in KE would be covered by the FSCS -- means that I'm back where I started: happy to stick with Kaupthing Edge.

The fact that some of us (me included) have had to think, re-think, and re-re-think in recent days is merely a reflection of the fast pace of events. The fact that some of us (me included) have been concerned and / or critical of the novation ambiguity is merely a reflection of a desire to act prudently rather than rashly.

Will KE's UK operation go under? I've no idea. But then, I've no idea about any of the other savings accounts I have, with other UK financial providers covered by the UK FSCS.

On which basis then, I'm sticking with Kaupthing Edge.

I've always believed it deserves to prosper -- because who in their right mind, as a saver, wants to see the market become increasingly uncompetitive? -- and now I'm even more impressed with its conduct at this time.

Hi, then, Kaupthing Edge. I'm back again. Here's hoping you long continue! :j

codger

[/quote]

Gawd, I've now deleted this duplicate post twice.

Less libation would seem to be in order as well as less novation.

occamsrazor

More info from the Isle of Man Govt on the proposed increase here:

http://www.gov.im/lib/news/treasury/savingsprotectio.xml

Oblivion

Dave_Braddan wrote: »

As for the last comment about my employment. I will treat it with the contempt it deserves and just ignore it.

Was this a reference to my post Dave, in which case I think you've misread and misconstrued. I am also called Dave and sign off my posts with 'Dave.' My post was addressed to papolo, not you.

Dave.

trevs707

Ignore all adverse name calling comments on this thread and if you can move your money out of KE.
Let the name callers leave their money exposed to what will be an untested and protracted procedure.

Dave_Braddan

Oblivion wrote: »

Was this a reference to my post Dave, in which case I think you've misread and misconstrued. I am also called Dave and sign off my posts with 'Dave.' My post was addressed to papolo, not you.

Dave.

I then retract my comment but not sure this is the place to cast doubt on the integrity of members

codger

trevs707 wrote: »

Ignore all adverse name calling comments on this thread and if you can move your money out of KE.
Let the name callers leave their money exposed to what will be an untested and protracted procedure.

Yes. The UK's FSCS is an untested procedure.

As such, I've no idea whether it will be protracted or not.

But I do know:

(1) the FSCS is the UK's own scheme and:

(2) Savings deposited with KE's UK subsidiary -- and permanently held there -- are covered solely by the UK scheme, not a tangled 'European passport' hotch-potch of the kind that may have to kick in if the bank behind IceSave fails to be restructured and is, instead, liquidated.

For anyone to now blithely advise that people should "move your money out of KE" on the basis of the UK's FSCS provision makes as much sense as calling for everyone, everywhere, to move their savings out of every UK-regulated deposit holder. . .

:rolleyes:

poppy10_2

Alistair Darling this morning confirmed that the Iceland deposit protection scheme has no funds and will not be paying out a penny. However, the UK government will be repaying 100% of all UK savers' deposits with Icesave, and will chase Iceland vigorously for compensation.

nicholbb

poppy10 wrote: »

Alistair Darling this morning confirmed that the Iceland deposit protection scheme has no funds and will not be paying out a penny. However, the UK government will be repaying 100% of all UK savers' deposits with Icesave, and will chase Iceland vigorously for compensation.

I think this is so wrong we shouldn't be giving over £50K of compensation to people, this removes all responsibility.

The Nordic countires should be asked to back this up for a start as they are also liable. However, I think it's right that the government do pay the Icelandic part of the money initially and then persue them on our behalf.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7658417.stm

codger

I'm just wondering if this thread has now run its course.

If as now seems clear, The Treasury has brokered a deal involving ING's acquisition of KE's UK customer account base, then KE isn't so much to be avoided as, perhaps, fondly remembered.

As for other, earlier posts here re IceSaver depositor compensation, and news of Brown's announcement that the UK will "pursue" Iceland for the £billions the UK is now going to have to pay to those depositors, yes, well: some hope.

Not only are we today saying goodbye to Kaupthing Edge, we're getting dangerously close to saying goodbye to Iceland, too.

So we might just as well start whistling for those missing £billions that are being returned to UK depositors in an IceSaver account which many of us stayed well clear of because we had more sense.