Please Help - Bizz Energy

fatlad1971

Sweet_Sugar_1984 wrote: »

Hi thanks for the advice.....The thing is I've never been in a sitation like this before so I'm just worried sick....They've told me I have to pay the estimated amount of £8000 until someone's been round from their company to check the meter and I have to pay by 01/10/08.....And yes I've not paid since I bought the property in July last yr....Would it be better going to a solicitor?

I would take legal advice
Have you signed any paperwork or agreed anything verbally over the phone with Bizz energy ?
If not Biz are on a fairly sticky wicket ,
Personally i feel you are in a very strong position, what sort of business is it? has it been open during this period ?
If Bizz cant prove you have consumed this energy and you have no contract with Bizz then they are bullying you

Get your solicitor to write a letter asking on what basis they are asking for this payment ? what proof they have you have consumed this energy ? and why they haven't taken into account the meter read you gave when you purchased the property ,
Measure your weekly consumption then work out what you have reasonably used
since you bought the property ,offer to pay this and not a penny more
don't allow them to charge you for the previous owners usage

Sweet_Sugar_1984

fatlad1971 wrote: »

I would take legal advice
Have you signed any paperwork or agreed anything verbally over the phone with Bizz energy ?
If not Biz are on a fairly sticky wicket ,
Personally i feel you are in a very strong position, what sort of business is it? has it been open during this period ?
If Bizz cant prove you have consumed this energy and you have no contract with Bizz then they are bullying you

Get your solicitor to write a letter asking on what basis they are asking for this payment ? what proof they have you have consumed this energy ? and why they haven't taken into account the meter read you gave when you purchased the property ,
Measure your weekly consumption then work out what you have reasonably used
since you bought the property ,offer to pay this and not a penny more
don't allow them to charge you for the previous owners usage

Hi, I have never signed a contract with Bizz Energy or agreed anything with them over the phone. The first I heard from them was when I received the huge bill.

The business is a shop, but I have not used it since I got it last July, hence I don't know why they've billed me so much.

I am going to see a solicitor tomorrow, but I'm just really worried about the final demand I've got.....

Should I tell Bizz Energy to completely stop supplying the property with electricity altogether? Or would it be wise to stick with them until this issue is resolved. Should I also pay off an amount of say £500 by the due date of 01/10/08 to stop any other action being taken against me or any costs incurred?

Thank you.

anniecave

In order for Bizz to stop supplying completely they would have to come out and de-energise (take fuse out) or disconnect the meter. This costs money. It also costs money to re-energise the meter or re-connect it.
If you plan to use the shop (or someone else in the future may want to do so) then I wouldn't suggest this.
What proportion of the £8000 bill is standing charges? You will need to be paying these anyway so by all means offer to pay this value.

I would think if you submitted the current meter reading and just ask them to recalculate the bill based on that, it may not be be too far out anyway. What does that come out at ?

If you can't prove your opening reading then there's not much else that can be done, as the previous owner will have just paid on an estimated final reading for them too.

If there are any security lights or anything switched on there may be a bit of elec used even when it is empty.

fatlad1971

Sweet_Sugar_1984 wrote: »

Hi, I have never signed a contract with Bizz Energy or agreed anything with them over the phone. The first I heard from them was when I received the huge bill.

The business is a shop, but I have not used it since I got it last July, hence I don't know why they've billed me so much.

I am going to see a solicitor tomorrow, but I'm just really worried about the final demand I've got.....

Should I tell Bizz Energy to completely stop supplying the property with electricity altogether? Or would it be wise to stick with them until this issue is resolved. Should I also pay off an amount of say £500 by the due date of 01/10/08 to stop any other action being taken against me or any costs incurred?

Thank you.

As Ive stated Bizz are on a sticky wicket here
You could even have a case for demanding money with menaces
Be strong , don't allow them to bully you
your solicitor if he is any good should be able to send them off with a flee in their ear

fatlad1971

anniecave wrote: »

In order for Bizz to stop supplying completely they would have to come out and de-energise (take fuse out) or disconnect the meter. This costs money. It also costs money to re-energise the meter or re-connect it.
If you plan to use the shop (or someone else in the future may want to do so) then I wouldn't suggest this.
What proportion of the £8000 bill is standing charges? You will need to be paying these anyway so by all means offer to pay this value.

I would think if you submitted the current meter reading and just ask them to recalculate the bill based on that, it may not be be too far out anyway. What does that come out at ?

If you can't prove your opening reading then there's not much else that can be done, as the previous owner will have just paid on an estimated final reading for them too.

If there are any security lights or anything switched on there may be a bit of elec used even when it is empty.

Let me know how you get on

worcestersaver

Sweet_Sugar_1984 wrote: »

Hi thanks for the advice.....The thing is I've never been in a sitation like this before so I'm just worried sick....They've told me I have to pay the estimated amount of £8000 until someone's been round from their company to check the meter and I have to pay by 01/10/08.....And yes I've not paid since I bought the property in July last yr....Would it be better going to a solicitor?

I am sure you are deemed to have a contract with an energy supplier if you consume their supply. Ignoring bills and failure to pay your energy supplier is sheer negligence and their is response is therefore not suprising. Your best course of action is to speak nicely to your supplier in an attempt to get a positive response from them. You should also try to provide proof that you rang them 14 months ago by contacting your phone provider, most itemise calls and should be helpful to you.

fatlad1971

worcestersaver wrote: »

I am sure you are deemed to have a contract with an energy supplier if you consume their supply. Ignoring bills and failure to pay your energy supplier is sheer negligence and their is response is therefore not suprising. Your best course of action is to speak nicely to your supplier in an attempt to get a positive response from them. You should also try to provide proof that you rang them 14 months ago by contacting your phone provider, most itemise calls and should be helpful to you.

You are not " Deemed" to be in contract by consuming energy , most companies will charged deemed rates (ie out of contract rates)
I agree i cant understand why this was left so long , and this has made the situation worse

worcestersaver

fatlad1971 wrote: »

You are not " Deemed" to be in contract by consuming energy , most companies will charged deemed rates (ie out of contract rates)
I agree i cant understand why this was left so long , and this has made the situation worse

It is a "Deemed Contract" as no contract has been signed under the terms of the Electricity Act 1989. Bizz Energys deemed contract can be found @ http://www.bizzenergy.com/files/pdf/NHHDeemed.pdf.
The lady in question presumably agreed verbally for the supply to continue from Bizz Energy when she made her phone call to them with the meter reading when taking over the property.

ex-energywatch_adviser

worcestersaver is correct regarding deemed contracts. Every consumer, both business and domestic, enters into a deemed contract with whichever supplier supplied the property when the consumer moved in/became responsible for it. Deemed or out of contract rates will be applied until the consumer either agrees a contract with the current supplier or successfully transfers to another supplier.

This type of problem normally occurs when the new occupant makes no attempt to find out who the current supplier and contact them to say they have moved in and provide them with a meter reading, ideally a reading agreed with the previous occupant, solicitor, letting agent etc. so there can be no future dispute. Contrary to popular belief, it is the responsibility of the new consumer not the supplier to start this process. Although the original poster states that they did contact Bizzenergy, I know from extensive experience of dealing with Bizz that they would have plagued the life out of them to agree a contract and this does not appear to have happened.

The fact that an opening meter reading has not been recorded exacerbates this problem considerably as Bizz are allowed, in the absence of an actual opening meter reading, to use an estimated reading but ideally this reading should be based on historical data. Also any change to the opening reading to reduce the balance for the current occupant will pass the cost onto the previous occupant which is probably why they have been uncooperative. Hopefully the current reading used for billing purposes is drastically over estimated and providing the correct reading may significantly reduce the balance.

The reason why this has taken so long to come to light is that it is impossible for suppliers on a day to day basis to individually monitor every site that they supply - just because someone moves out doesn't automatically mean that someone else is moving in; that is why it is vitally important that the new occupant makes the initial contact with the exixting supplier. Suppliers will periodically do a sweep of all the sites they supply (every one or two years) to identify which sites are using gas/electricity (even minimal amounts) but there is not a live account in place. They will then open an account and bill the site normally addressing the invoice to The Occupier.

In the absence of any proof of the actual opening meter reading the best course of action may be to challenge Bizz under Standard Licence Condition 7: Terms of Contracts and Deemed Contracts.

This Licence Condition states that the licensee (supplier) must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the terms of each of its Deemed Contracts are not unduly onerous (7.3)

"Unduly onerous" is defined as where the revenue derived from supplying the premises significantly exceeds the licensee's costs of supplying the premises and to the premises of the generality of the non-domestic consumer. (7.4)
Basically this means that if Bizz are charging other contracted business consumers in the area an average of say (for example purposes only - this is not an actual figure) 10p per kwh and 20p per day standing charge (from which they will derive a profit) and you are being charged 20p per kwh and £2 per day standing charge this may be considered unduly onerous.

If a licensee supplies under a deemed contract they must take all reasonable steps to provide the customer with the Principal Terms of the Deemed Contract and that Contracts with different terms may be available and how information about such contracts may be obtained. (7.7)
Bizz shouldn't just be sending you an invoice - if they are billing on deemed terms they should make this clear and should give you details of other contracts that are available.

In determining the number of kilowatt hours that are to be treated as supplied to or taken at the premises under a Deemed Contract, the licensee must act reasonably and take into account available consumption data for the premises and any other relevant factor. (7.9).
You could provide current readings over a period but that would not conclusively prove what has been used previously. It may be better to ask Bizz to provide proof of consumption history for the site and if they are billing you for say fifty thousand units for the period you have been responsible when the average annual consumption for the site historically has been ten thousand units then this would be a definite indicator that they are overbilling.

(please note any figures used above are for illustrative purposes only and do not represent any actual data)

One last thing - you could consider agreeing a contract with Bizz going forward if they are prepared to resolve this matter and backdate the contract rates (which they aren't obliged to do) but if you decide not to agree a contract with them and transfer to another supplier, Bizz cannot object to the transfer on the grounds of the outstanding debt under a deemed contract.

Sorry this is so lengthy but there was a lot to cover - hope some of it is helpful, if not to you then to any other business consumers who may be having similar problems.

Colin_Mc_2

A very interesting and enlightening response from the ex-adviser. Thank you.
I have stumbled onto this subject as an E4B(now in administration) business user. Despite the fact that I find myself without the supplier I was contracted to, as a result of their inability to operate a profitable business model, I have been shoehorned into a deemed contract with the reliably ever expensive British Gas. BG have been selected from almost every other cheaper supplier by the geniuses at Ofgem, as the Supplier of Last Resort (how apt). If they are on our side, God help us all.
Having received an email from UK Power, the comparison website, I acted as suggested and chose an alternative supplier. At no time, did UKP mention the subject of deemed contracts and I have today received a call from BG informing me that I will be subjected to this rip-off. It was a short call due to the manner of my response. I assume my operator has not been on the 'how to deal with a hostile customer' course, yet.
I have challenged UKP by email on their short term profit vs. disregard for the consumer tactic and will post their response, though I am not expecting them to admit any failing. I will try once again to report their behaviour to Consumer Direct (they're supposed to be on our side as well) although having called them today regarding the E4B/deemed contract debacle, I'm not particularly hopeful on that front either.
Is it just me, or does this whole process have to be so fraught with difficulty? It's hard enough running a small business day to day, without being subjected to all manner of arcane rules and regulations. If the deregulation of energy supply was supposed to open up a wealth of choice and make life easier for the user to select the most appropriate bespoke deal, the train left without me.
You really must excuse me, I feel a gin&tonic beckoning...