Why do people think landlords are greedy

Captain_Mainwaring_2

brit1234 wrote: »

People hate Landlords due to what has happened over the last ten years. IE BTL buy up all the first time buyer properties with their tax advantages and gearing, increasing prices rapidly to the detriment of all.

How that I have been priced out of the market my tax payers money now has to bail out buy to let loans rather than hospitals, teachers, armed forces.

Thats why I think landlords are greedy. They sow what they will reap.:mad:

Well the it's your turn now, you must have saved a huge deposit while you were waiting, and now the prices are crashing and the interest rates are easy. You should be able to have the last laugh, unless of course you haven't got any money......

brit1234

Captain_Mainwaring wrote: »

Well the it's your turn now, you must have saved a huge deposit while you were waiting, and now the prices are crashing and the interest rates are easy. You should be able to have the last laugh, unless of course you haven't got any money......

Got a huge deposit but still saving at least one more year. Prices are still well overvalued and have a long way to fall. 50% falls from peak are increasingly being spoken of by independant experts and non vested interest bodies. 60% is now being talked about due to an over correction.

Thats going to be hard for landlords who purchased in the last 5 years and those highly geared. Especially when it comes to margin calls writen into their mortgages or when the time comes to remortgage.

Buy to Let is looking extremely weak and vulnerable at the moment.

flea72

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax wrote: »

brit1234, I think you have a very tainted view of Buy to Lets. For your information somewhere in the region of 6 in 7 people rent in the rest of Europe, but something like 6 in 7 people own in the UK. Are you saying that in the rest of Europe greedy BTL Landlords have taken over?

the difference is, the properties being rented in europe arent mortgaged, and arent viewed as savings plans. The rental of the property, is the LL income. The possible future equity in the property isnt the reason for owning. Infact, due to the low sale/high rental markets, price tended to be stable from one year to the next. its only the influx of 2nd homers/BTL holiday makers, that have forced house prices up across europe

Flea

mizzbiz

I agree with Brit.
How many people who did BTL actually had the money to buy those new build flats that they were promised huge returns on? Very few, hence the BTL fraud that has brought down Bradford & Bingley this weekend.

I've posted before about Echo 24 in Sunderland. These awful flats, half of which overlook a very busy roundabout in Sunderland City Centre, were going for between £180k and £250k at the peak. The majority were bought on BTL mortgages by BTL speculators 'down south', thinking that the people in Sunderland would love to pay their £1k pm plus mortgages for them. What a joke! Where is this money supposed to come from? Most families live in houses. Young professionals here just scrape that amount of money per month after tax. The average flat rental in the city centre (normal, split terraces) are about £500pm max, most are cheaper.

So my question is, if BTL landlords are not greedy and were creating a viable business, where is the market research to show people in Sunderland wanted these flats? Where are the figures to show that people could afford these flats? And most of all, why do these landlords think that, if young people had a grand a month to blow on these monstrosities they wouldn't rather buy a house for a fraction of the cost?
If there was no such thing as a BTL mortgage or BTL frenzy, these flats would either a) never have been built or b) have been sold at a price within the reach of first time buyers, and not BTL speculators

BTL was a pyramid scam, anyone who bought since 2005 didn't do their sums, didn't create a viable business plan, didn't do their research, didn't use their common sense. The only explanation I can find for their behaviour is that all they could see were £ signs, which, of course, a greedy person doth make! Not an investor.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/action/publicsite.PropertySearch

Captain_Mainwaring_2

brit1234 wrote: »

Got a huge deposit but still saving at least one more year. Prices are still well overvalued and have a long way to fall. 50% falls from peak are increasingly being spoken of by independant experts and non vested interest bodies. 60% is now being talked about due to an over correction.

Thats going to be hard for landlords who purchased in the last 5 years and those highly geared. Especially when it comes to margin calls writen into their mortgages or when the time comes to remortgage.

Buy to Let is looking extremely weak and vulnerable at the moment.

Well stop moaning then and wait your turn.

Oh and because mealy mouthed tenants always say "make sure you declare your rental income", I will say "make sure you declare you interest from your massive deposit"

BTL isn't vulnerable at all if you did your sums, which some of us did (I can afford to wait until the rates hit 14% before I stop winning), only BTLers who went for a short term game and didn't finance it right will lose. Everyone else will ride the storm and wait for the prices to go back up, which they will, in good time.

going2die_rich

Not every investor is a good investor. Many people did fail to research the facts about BTL, and buy the wrong properties, didn't consider what was really involved or way up the risks properly.

But does that mean FTB's can just blame BTL's for not doing well enough in life to afford a property? It's greed of a FTB wanting want they can't afford. They should just accept that some things are just out of their grasp. It's not as if they don't have an alternative to owning a property...they can rent after all

lostinrates

i think landlords are a necessary part of housing provision, and good ones are very valuable. Where I become uncomfortable is where LL see all the prospects of gain with little of the responsibilty. I find that attitude horrid with anything, but when your position involves people's homes its very scary.

tbs624

brit1234 wrote: »

... 50% falls from peak are increasingly being spoken of by independant experts and non vested interest bodies. 60% is now being talked about due to an over correction....

My highlighting - who are these people? Can you give us some more info Brit?

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax

tbs624 wrote: »

My highlighting - who are these people? Can you give us some more info Brit?

brit1234 of course.

Cannon_Fodder

While there may well be some sensible, long-term Landlords out there, I think
trying to argue against Brit's generalisation by creating your own generalisation that "I'm a good landlord so the vast majority must also be", is disingenuous at best.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/house-and-home/property/number-of-buytolet-investors-will-double-within-four-years-446265.html

"Advances for buy-to-let mortgages are expected to rise from £38bn last year to £68bn in 2011. In 1999, the total was £3bn."


Ignoring the age of the article, apart from to say that obviously the headline is unlikely to be achieved now, am just using it to demostrate the growth in the "business" of BTLing.

A ten-fold increase in BTL lending. Ok prices maybe doubled or even tripled, accounting for some of that increase, but the rest is "band-wagon" money.

Plenty of people jumped on "to avoid missing out". Without thinking it through. Example in the bankruptcy forum, BTLer with 5 properties, 4 months in arrears within 6 months of the crunch hitting...good forward planning, good market research, built-in voids leeway, anything remotely like a "business" approach?? No.

Maybe not just greed, agree with the points on Pensions being damaged by "Brown the irresponsible", that made people look elsewhere for a replacement pension vehicle.

But it is simple supply and demand, when 1 million BTLers are holding onto property that *could* otherwise be on the market, that pushes prices up.

If OPEC sit on the Oil instead of pumping it, to deliberately make prices go high, that would and should be criticised. This is the same, albeit in a uncoordinated manner. If Rents were simply an income, as someone above stated, fine. But they are not, BTLers expect the tenant to pay their mortgage, give them an income AND see capital appreciation thru HPI - that in my book is greed.

That some are now getting their fingers burnt is for the good of the country as a whole.