Problems with Dog Trainer

Bubbles911

HI I was hoping for some advice as something unsettled me yesterday and I want/need to do something about it.

My puppy (Chihuahua) has been going to training classes that are following the KC good citizen award. He passed his puppy class 3 weeks ago and we have been back for bronze. Last night was his second bronze class and something unnerving happened.

You have to pay for the 6 classes of a course in advance, during the 1st lot of classes I realised the teacher was to be honest a bit of a b!tch! I assumed it was because she was more of a animal person than a people person. She used to make snide comments at people, especially people like me with small dogs. Once she asked me in front of the whole class if my dog slept in a 4 posted bed, forced me to use pressure points on my dog to make him lie down despite me saying I was not comfortable with this and he did it with treats and too much other stuff to mention. Also the conditions arent great, its inside a marquee thing with a concrete floor, snail trails all over, fur balls and fleas! it has not been cleaned in the 9 weeks I have been going because the snail trails are still in the same place. Not nice when you are on the floor with your dog.

After the first set of classes I looked in to an alternative but to go to someone that followed the KC it was 10 miles away and the times aren't suitable with my work so I went back. 6 of us from the class did but 2 didnt and said it was because of the teacher.

Last night she lost it with a dog. My dog is "best friends" with a pekingnise (sp) so I was sitting next to its owner and her daughter. We first of all groomed our dogs, obviously the pkg had a lot of hair and had been shampood that day so his hair was a huge afro! After that we were asked to make a slip lead so we could take the collar off our dog to show her as this was required for the exam. I did mine but the owner of the pkg could not see what to do because the hair was flying all over the place!

The teacher came over and the owner explained but the teacher insisted on taking the collar off, but the hair was getting caught in it and hurting the dog, you could see it pulling so the dog warned her he was going to bite. I saw all of this happen and know the dog did not bite her, I was sitting right next to them sitting side ways all he did was warn her but understand that dogs shouldnt do that, but part of the reason for taking them there is to get them out of these habits. Any dog is going to warn someone off if they are being hurt, its their nature.

Anyway the teacher started shouting in front of the whole class that the dog had bit her and asked the owner to let go of her dog. The owner refused trying to explain calmly that the dog was hurt but the teacher screamed that no dog was going to bite her in her class. I did not have the guts to stand up in front of everyone and say he did not bite, he warned, I hate myself now for not doing it cos of what happened next.

The owner let go and the teacher threw the dog (although he was struggling to get away because he was scared so it may have been not as malicious as it looked) on the floor and then put her fingers around his neck and forced him to lie down, pushing him right to the floor. She seriously could have broke his neck. The owner was really upset and shouted at the teacher but the teacher would not listen so it ended up being a bit of a slanging match. The teacher said the dog was still bearing his teeth at her and put her hand in front of it hoping he would bite her but the poor thing just licked her even after what she had done to him. He was hurt by her and I know him, he is as soft as anything and would not hurt anyone.

Now the owner is not going back and I told her what I saw. I dont think the teacher should be able to get away with this. So i have some questions:

1. I know a dog is NEVER supposed to bite but is it wrong for a dog to warn someone that they are hurting him by bearing his teeth? My puppy used to do this occasionally, not as much now, so I want to know if this is animal nature as I thought or really wrong?. My dog would never actually bite and I am pretty sure the PKG wouldnt neither but is a warning of stop it just as bad?

2. Surely it is not normal for a teacher to hold a dog on the floor by its neck? I know you have to teach them you are the pack leader but surely this is going far too far with it.

3. Should the conditions be better, do they have to follow any guidelines to be accredited by the KC?

4. Is there anything I can do to stop this. I had nightmares of her doing this again to a poor dog and it not coming off so lucky. I couldnt live with myself if this happened.

Thanks for reading, I hope you can provide me with some answers cos its constantly on my mind, seeing her pinning that little dog to the floor.

pboae

Is the trainer a member of any organisations?

KC accreditation doesn't count for much in this situation. All they really do is provide the syllabus. And unfortunately there are still a lot of trainers out there who train with force and manhandling.

Personally I have no issue with dogs growling as a warning, but I know not everyone feels that way. I feel that a dog that gives a clear warning is a much safer dog to be around than one that doesn't.

Incidentally, I did my bronze a couple of years ago, and I didn't have to take my dog's collar off, I just had to show the examiner his tag. But they may have changed the syllabus since then.

FakeIrish

Ditto, KC accreditation is meaningless. Just find yourself a good local trainer which may involve going to a variety of classes until you find one you like. Similar issues we had was we were keen to find a KC accredited breeder and we found one but the conditions the dogs were kept in were horrendous. We ended up buying a dog from this place because we felt awful for them. The first few months were hard work but we have now got a beautiful Springer. It was a risk we were prepared to face.

We mentioned to the KC the awful conditions the dogs were kept in and that the breeder should not be KC accredited. The KC did nothing and the breeder is still KC accredited.

foreign_correspondent

pboae wrote: »

Personally I have no issue with dogs growling as a warning, but I know not everyone feels that way. I feel that a dog that gives a clear warning is a much safer dog to be around than one that doesn't..

I totally agree - would rather a dog growl to say 'get off me' rather than be too scared to growl and just snap in desperation!

My dog growled at me the other day, she never has before, and it was totally my faut for suddenly invading her space when she was enjoying a bone. The growl was momentary, then it was as if she realised it was only me and rolled over tail wagging and a silly smile on her face as if to say 'oops, sorry - didnt mean it!'

The trainer sounds like a nightmare - is the pekes owner going to go back again??

eira

I've been to 2 'dog trainers'- one was ok but not really very practical advice.The first was a nightmare-I don't think she knew what she was on about .I subsequently found out that she didn't.She was a member of various organisations but I found out that you didn't need any qualifications to join them.

Your vet or local dog charities may know of good trainers. I would refer the matter to the Kennel Club as presumably you must have to satisfy some criteria to be able to get the certificates, But I would cut your losses and get out-bad trainers can do a lot of damage. This trainer and class sounds like a nightmare. Some of these trainers don't ;like little dogs and they also don't like big dogs (which both of mine were) Some dog owners I know have a theory that if you choose some trainers they are basically only happy with labradors or spaniels

trudij

Completely agree with the others here - dont go back. As for the trainer - is she on the list of trainers? If she is, you can report her, and get the other people (if you are in touch with any of them??) to report them too - she was completley out of order. With any luck, if there are enough complaints-she will be warned.Not that it will make much difference I expect, but she needs to know that people are not prepared to put up with things like that.



Im no bunny hugger, but NOBODY diciplines my dog except me.(or my mum!) and you never,ever do it like that.

Bubbles911

thanks for the replies, just about to go out but didnt want to read and run so will update properly tomorrow. One thing I wanted to say though, when i was looking for a trainer i emailed the kc and they reccomended her!!!!

1_step_closer

I have just read your post and amshocked - if any trainer had done that to any of my dogs I'd have punched her into the middle of next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes one of mine needs more dicipline than the others and I can look to be more rough with him but a stranger doing that?

No, I dont think so.
Report her.

moomin5

I would rather say goodbye to my money than risk her ruining my dog, she really sounds like an appalling trainer, with no respect for dogs or people. I'm not sure who you should report her to but if its possible to tarnish her reputation so it hit her where it hurts i.e financially so no other people loose their money or ending up with dogs with more issues than before they started the class.

The first training class we went to was rather old school methods and more force than reward based, we hadn't actually paid so just left midway through as it wasn't for us. I then found a registered trainer on http://www.apdt.co.uk/ and after having a good chat about the classes i went along and viewed a class (without dog) to make sure her teaching style was decent and would suit us, before signing up.

Some trainers do home visits for 1-2-1 training and some might do a saturday class. We had to drive about 7 miles to get to our class as there was nothing locally, it was a bit of a rush after work but was 7-8pm so manageable.

Emmabeth

O... M..... G...

Seriously, that is shocking.

Do not take your dog back there. If you want to get your moneys worth, such as that is from this 'trainer'.. then go along without your dog (either be assertive and state your intention to follow the class but dogless because of her abusive methods, or you can say your dog is not well but you dont want to miss out so will practice at home).

Ill be slightly more forthright than PBOAE here... a dogs growl is a vital and valuable communication tool, anyone who wants to teach a dog never to growl has NO business in dealing with dogs, ever.

THere are ways of having a dog not growl, those are understanding the dog and reading his body language (hard though that is with a very hairy flat faced peke) and not putting him in a position where he will growl - training him with rewards to trust and tolerate uncomfortable things etc...

Do look for an APDT trainer, go along to any new class without your dog at first and make sure the methods seem safe and kind - physical force, aggressive treatment of animals, punishments etc, are not effective or safe training methods and if you doubt something - walk away and ask for opinions, on here and on the many positive training based dog forums around.