Ducati insurance claim (bike stolen with no MOT)

P_S_B

Good afternoon all.

It is with a heavy heart that my first post here is of this nature...

I am, and always have been, a very responsible owner of all of my vehicles. However, in this case I am a little concerned (and embarassed) that a genuine error might cause me a problem with my insurance claim.

My Ducati motorcycle was stolen a few weeks ago by an un-insured (and un-identified) toerag. The bike was recovered but the engineers report deemed it an uneconomical repair.

My insurer has naturally asked for my documentation / keys etc, which I was gathering together, but my stomach lurched when I saw that I hadn't renewed my MOT since march. This was a completely unintentional oversight (kindly, be still the cynics)

Please could someone provide me with, or point me in the right direction of, some information regarding the likely outcome of my claim and some advice as to how to broach this subject with the insurers.

I had paid in full and upfront for the fully comp insurance on this bike and it was taxed. Everything remained accurate as disclosed at the time the insurance was purchased.

For what it's worth by way of an explanation, the fact it was still taxed was my reason for not remembering an MOT was due. I invariably renew a years tax, MOT (and sometimes insurance) on the same day in one round trip.

I am racking my brain to understand why I did not do this in this case. I must have purchased the tax disk before the expiry of the MOT and I can only assume there was a reason at the time I did it this way round and forgot to book an MOT soon afterwards.

My rambling aside, any thoughts or help please?

Many thank in advance

Kindest regards

Peter

Wig

I'd keep quiet re: the MOT, forward the expired cert if they ask for one, but don't forward it if they have not asked. and hope that they don't pick up on it. If they do they may or may not argue that it reduces the value, in which case ask for wriiten quote and the amount they are deducting for lack of MOT.

Fight the value before deduction and the value after deduction as necessary. You can also instruct your own valuer and if possible get the emmisions tested to show atleast that part of the bike was in good order. Give the emmissions test to your valuer.

If you can't agree on value, and you have some evidence and or argument as to its proper value than appeal to the FSA.

If you get a cheap quote for a repair, you could opt to get it repaired and claim for the cost of repair, as long as it does not exceed their valuation, they cannot stop you from doing that AFAIK.

P_S_B

They have requested in writing the MOT certificate to be included along with all other documentation.

I shall certainly take your advice regarding arguing the value, although perhaps you have a suggestion for the following subsequent issue:

The bike was originally taken to the Ducati garage but as soon as the estimate for repairing to its original standard (nearly £2300) was completed, the insurance company came to collect the bike without telephoning me first. I assume it is still with them - Is this a strong part of my defence in this instance as I obviously cannot now ask the Ducati garage to test whether, apart from the cosmetic damage, the bike was essentially not going to fail the MOT before the theft occured.

However, do you not agree that the very fact Ducati did not specify anything other than predominantly cosmetic damage indicates the bike was essentially in working order?

I admit that the headlight glass being cracked, a wing mirror being torn off and the number being plate lost all constitute MOT failures, it was apparantly quite obvious that these things had occured during the time the bike was being used stolen, as the police had spotted it and flagged it before I had a chance to report it stolen. (It was stolen whilst I was at work hence the delay)

As for anything else, I guess that depends on my negotiating skills!

LandyAndy

The insurers can't deny your claim because of no MOT as the lack of MOT did not contribute to the theft. As Wig says they may use it as a lever on value.

Wig

Before forwarding documents.... Ask them what value has been placed on the vehicle that entitled them to decide the repair would be uneconomical. They may say the dealership advised as such, in which case ask them what is their intention on method of determing a valuation, try to get a figure from them. Ask them where the bike is stored, tell them to expect you and authorise its release to you in order to get a second opinion on the bikes repair cost.

Go and get it (it is your property) and take it for a repair quote with someone cheaper than a Ducati dealership. BTW the Ducati repair might be £2,300 for labour alone not including parts, I think that's the way dealerships give repair quotes.

Forward to them the much cheaper quote and ask that they agree to the repair. If they ask for documents at this stage, inform them that those documents have no relevance to the claim.

Alternatively, forward the documents wait for them to come back to you with an offer (in the meantime ask them where the bike is being stored and if there is a daily storage charge - if there is a charge tell them your intention of a 2nd opinion and your intention to immediately pick up your property) Then pick up the bike and get a repair quote and see if you can get it repaired for less than the MOTless valuation. I like the first plan better.

Essentially in working order, yes, but they will still argue that the MOT is an unknown quantity and lack of it will reduce value - perhaps by £500 ??? Surely anymore would be wholly unreasonable. With your own engineers report you might get a better motless valuation. .

P_S_B

I wanted to confirm that the repair quote was given by a Ducati garage, and not by the insurers engineer so when you say 'your own engineers report' it was by my request that it went to Ducati in the first place.

Although I wholely see your point of not initially agreeing to an uneconomical repair decision and getting a new quote and the bike fixed, I suppose that depends on whether or not I want to have the bike back anyway, which I must clarify is *not* the case if I correctly understand your thinking behind your advice and follow it to its logical conclusion.

Considering the time that I might have to invest in trying to obtain a cheaper quote, wait for repairs to be effected, and then resell the bike in a crash repaired format (as I would) I might begin to consider negotiating around a *slightly* reduced valuation, without saying so in so many words to the insurers.

I also assume that if I were to now collect the bike, I would be liable for the subsequent lifting costs as the bike is obviously not currently legal on the public highway. The insurers have already agreed that my costs are covered thus far including the original police lifting costs, the police approved compound storage costs, the insurance approved lift from the compound to the Ducati garage, and the quote. Therefore, even if I were to save £500 on the original Ducati quote, that might be negated in part by my further actions.

In writing this and thinking it all through in my head based on your suggestions, I am now thinking that firm negotiation with the insurers based on the uneconomical decision so far might suit me better. If I can get hold of Ducati and get something in writing that might support me in my negotiations then I could possibly negotiate a payment that might suit me. Can I also factor the bike in its current state into my negotiation on top of that?

I could then possibly sell it (or scrap it!) without doing any repairs for a few hundred quid and add that to the reduced total of my claim, and get back something nearer to that which I started off with.

Based on this thinking, what is the best thing to do with the expired MOT certificate now? Send it immediately with everything else, or telephone the insurers first?

Summary of costs:

Original price paid for bike = £2500
Insured value = £2300
Possible offer (less no MOT deduction) = £1800 (assuming I can negotiate no depreciation!)
Compulsory Excess = £250

Best total return = £1550
Return from damaged bike sale = £300??

Total possible reclaim = £1850

Any thoughts? I've no doubt blundered somewhere in my thinking.

Thanks for your advice so far!!

P

P_S_B

I wanted to confirm that the repair quote was given by a Ducati garage, and not by the insurers engineer so when you say 'your own engineers report' it was by my request that it went to Ducati in the first place.

Although I wholely see your point of not initially agreeing to an uneconomical repair decision and getting a new quote and the bike fixed, I suppose that depends on whether or not I want to have the bike back anyway, which I must clarify is *not* the case if I correctly understand your thinking behind your advice and follow it to its logical conclusion.

Considering the time that I might have to invest in trying to obtain a cheaper quote, wait for repairs to be effected, and then resell the bike in a crash repaired format (as I would) I might begin to consider negotiating around a *slightly* reduced valuation, without saying so in so many words to the insurers.

I also assume that if I were to now collect the bike, I would be liable for the subsequent lifting costs as the bike is obviously not currently legal on the public highway. The insurers have already agreed that my costs are covered thus far including the original police lifting costs, the police approved compound storage costs, the insurance approved lift from the compound to the Ducati garage, and the quote. Therefore, even if I were to save £500 on the original Ducati quote, that might be negated in part by my further actions.

In writing this and thinking it all through in my head based on your suggestions, I am now thinking that firm negotiation with the insurers based on the uneconomical decision so far might suit me better. If I can get hold of Ducati and get something in writing that might support me in my negotiations then I could possibly negotiate a payment that might suit me. Can I also factor the bike in its current state into my negotiation on top of that?

I could then possibly sell it (or scrap it!) without doing any repairs for a few hundred quid and add that to the reduced total of my claim, and get back something nearer to that which I started off with.

Based on this thinking, what is the best thing to do with the expired MOT certificate now? Send it immediately with everything else, or telephone the insurers first?

Summary of costs:

Original price paid for bike = £2500
Insured value = £2300
Possible offer (less no MOT deduction) = £1800 (assuming I can negotiate no depreciation!)
Compulsory Excess = £250

Best total return = £1650
Return from damaged bike sale = £300??

Total possible reclaim = £1950

Any thoughts? I've no doubt blundered somewhere in my thinking.

Thanks for your advice so far!!

P

Wig

P_S_B wrote: »

I wanted to confirm that the repair quote was given by a Ducati garage, and not by the insurers engineer so when you say 'your own engineers report' it was by my request that it went to Ducati in the first place.

I understand that, and you are equally entitled to take it somewhere else for a cheaper quote. The engineers valuation (obtained by a certified auto engineer not a mechanic or dealership employee) would be for the purposes of arguing a better 'write off' value

Although I wholely see your point of not initially agreeing to an uneconomical repair decision and getting a new quote and the bike fixed, I suppose that depends on whether or not I want to have the bike back anyway, which I must clarify is *not* the case if I correctly understand your thinking behind your advice and follow it to its logical conclusion.

You might reconsider your position if they value your bike at half price. (Which is why it's a bit risky to let them value it first, before getting the 2nd quote, because the second quote might not be able to beat the MOTless value IYSWIM) The bike would still be in as good condition as it was before the accident, the accident would not be recorded and you could sell the bike with no more problem than you could have before the accident.

Considering the time that I might have to invest in trying to obtain a cheaper quote, wait for repairs to be effected, and then resell the bike in a crash repaired format (as I would) I might begin to consider negotiating around a *slightly* reduced valuation, without saying so in so many words to the insurers.

No negotiations on settlement value can be finalised until you have forwarded the expired MOT to them, however, without doing that you can present a reduced repair quote.

I also assume that if I were to now collect the bike, I would be liable for the subsequent lifting costs as the bike is obviously not currently legal on the public highway. The insurers have already agreed that my costs are covered thus far including the original police lifting costs, the police approved compound storage costs, the insurance approved lift from the compound to the Ducati garage, and the quote. Therefore, even if I were to save £500 on the original Ducati quote, that might be negated in part by my further actions

I would have thought that as all of those costs are completely unavoidable to get the first repair quote, they would all be covered and remain so even if you went to the current storage yard with a trailer to reclaim your property. What you are now negotiating is whether on top of those costs the insurance pay you a final settlement and keep the bike or pay you a lesser amount for the bike to be repaired.

In writing this and thinking it all through in my head based on your suggestions, I am now thinking that firm negotiation with the insurers based on the uneconomical decision so far might suit me better. If I can get hold of Ducati and get something in writing that might support me in my negotiations then I could possibly negotiate a payment that might suit me.

If their settlement figure is close enough to your idea of the bikes value then fine, take it, but at this stage their settlement figure is an unknown until they have the MOT.

Can I also factor the bike in its current state into my negotiation on top of that?

No, they will keep the bike.

I could then possibly sell it (or scrap it!) without doing any repairs for a few hundred quid and add that to the reduced total of my claim, and get back something nearer to that which I started off with.

Nope.

Based on this thinking, what is the best thing to do with the expired MOT certificate now? Send it immediately with everything else, or telephone the insurers first?

If you want to see what they value the bike at first, then sending the MOT is the only option. After this you could still consider repair if their value is too low for you, but if you are considering this as an option and you have a trailer, then I would ask if they are currently having storage charges.

They may well have been extrememly unprofessional and cheeky and have disposed of the bike already.

Summary of costs:

Original price paid for bike = £2500
Insured value = £2300
Possible offer (less no MOT deduction) = £1800 (assuming I can negotiate no depreciation!)
Compulsory Excess = £250

Best total return = £1550
Return from damaged bike sale = £300??

Total possible reclaim = £1850

Any thoughts? I've no doubt blundered somewhere in my thinking.

Thanks for your advice so far!!

P

You should try to find similar bike for sale today, the MOT deduction is anyones guess, then deduct the 250 XS and that is your final figure.