Short selling lies

meester

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

Some usefull info there thanks

http://www.dataexplorers.com/

Ford Motor company has 70% of its stock out on loan !!!!!! :O



Lehmans

graphs should have zero-base axes, otherwise they are just liars' tools

Debt_Free_Chick

meester wrote: »

graphs should have zero-base axes, otherwise they are just liars' tools

Whilst I don't disagree ... does it matter?

Isn't it the relative movement against whatever benchmark - zero or other - that's the issue?

I can be incredibly thick/blonde so do please put me right if I'm being a bit "Cheryl Cole" :rotfl:

esbo

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

You don't - you own a share (unit) of the investment pool. How can you possibly own the stock? Your investment is pooled with those of others. The total pool is used to buy stock. Let's say that you have 10 units in a UK tracker fund. There are other investors and, in total, there are 100 units. That fund is invested in Lloyds TSB, RBS, Vodafone and Prudential.

Which stock do you own? You only own 10% of the total pool. You don't own 10% of Lloyds, RBS, Vodafone and Prudential. If you think you do and you have invested in unitised funds, you are in for a big shock :eek: Sorry. But the stock is actually held by a nominee - it's not even owned by the investment manager running the fund :eek:



And if 1 unit is equivalent to 0.00631597169717% of one share, what do you own?



The investment manager (not the broker) owns is - albeit, via the nominee. He has paid for it and YOU gave him the money to buy it. In return for your money, you got units in the fund - you did not buy the stock.

Your pension is not worthless - it's worth the number of units you've bought multiplied by the price of those units. The price of the unit is a "composite" i.e. the total value of all the stocks divided by the total number of units held by all those who've bought that fund (OK - oversimplification there, ignoring all the charges, but the principle is sound).




I honestly hope you have no collective investments. Really I do. If you do, then you have no idea of what you own .... or, more accurately, you have no idea of what you don't own

Oh dear it is rather sad to see someone who does not realise that they are being robbed by brokers and have been robbed by them for years.

It's rather lilke you saying you have not been robbed because the robber but the stuff in his own bag before departing - how ludricous is that??

You seem to be proud of the fact that you understand the technical details of how you have been robbed, I would just prefer not to be robbed.

Not sure why you are defending thse criminals. I expect they told you they were honest?

I think you need to realise that although the burgular used his own bag, a transfer of wealth occured when he disappered with it full of your stuff, difficult as that may be to comprehend.

turbobob

If I invested in a fund that makes use of short selling, does that make me a robber in your eyes?

esbo

turbobob wrote: »

If I invested in a fund that makes use of short selling, does that make me a robber in your eyes?

I am not sure what you mean by "makes use of" it's like asking if you invest in a business that makes use of burgulary are you a burgular?
The short answer is yes.

So yes you are a thief all right.

turbobob

Cool :cool:

tradetime

esbo wrote: »

Oh dear it is rather sad to see someone who does not realise that they are being robbed by brokers and have been robbed by them for years.

No, what's sad is to see someone who has signed up for an account and has no idea what he signed up for, since at the beginning of this thread you had no idea who was loaning out all these shares.
DFG is not being robbed, as she understands the arrangement and is quite happy with it, just like myself.

esbo wrote: »

It's rather lilke you saying you have not been robbed because the robber but the stuff in his own bag before departing - how ludricous is that??

You seem to be proud of the fact that you understand the technical details of how you have been robbed, I would just prefer not to be robbed.

Not sure why you are defending thse criminals. I expect they told you they were honest?

I think you need to realise that although the burgular used his own bag, a transfer of wealth occured when he disappered with it full of your stuff, difficult as that may be to comprehend.

Ditto for all that. you probably best leave the stock markets to the grownups.

StevieJ

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Whilst I don't disagree ... does it matter?

Isn't it the relative movement against whatever benchmark - zero or other - that's the issue?

I can be incredibly thick/blonde so do please put me right if I'm being a bit "Cheryl Cole" :rotfl:

Take a look at this famous chart, should have a zero base but it then wouldn't totally exaggerate the point.
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/

esbo

tradetime wrote: »

No, what's sad is to see someone who has signed up for an account and has no idea what he signed up for, since at the beginning of this thread you had no idea who was loaning out all these shares.
DFG is not being robbed, as she understands the arrangement and is quite happy with it, just like myself.

Ditto for all that. you probably best leave the stock markets to the grownups.

I know what a loan is and I know what theft is.
She has no idea what she is talking about she just thinks she is clever because 'understands it' and you are either the same or a spiv.

Fact is most people are not very clever and are easilly fooled by a few words strung togeather which rhyme such as short selling and cerdit crunch etc.
I am afraid I am not that stupid I actually know what I am talking about *and* the difference between right and wrong, so don't tell me to grow up, well ot unless you bring your dad with you.

pumpndump

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

Anyone else have a slightly uncomfortable feeling about the Government interfering with the markets?

Surely ... the markets determine the value of shares. Now the Government seems to have a say in it.

Doesn't seem right to me ..... any other views?

It's inevitable. They need a scapegoat, and they like to pretend they can control the markets. My understanding is that only some shorting is being outlawed. I didn't pay much attemtion to the radio report, because I've never shorted, and have no plans of ever doing so.