'without predudice' letter

Incisor

Premier wrote: »

Mutton Geoff's draft does state what would be sought. i.e. "this amount [£xx] plus costs"

There is no way the costs can be quantified at the outset as it would depend on when the defendant settles the matter and what eventually is involved in recovering the debt.

It is very easy [for those in the know:p] to identify costs quite specifically without quantifying

Bungarm2001

neas wrote: »

Your figures dont add up?

One tenant who left december paid till feb (02) andyou are claiming his portion till june (06) so maximum 4 months.

Other tenant left August paid till may (05) and you are claiming his portion till August (08) 3-4 months? or are you trying to charge him rent for may,june, july, august, september? Which as you say he wasn't actually in the property then.

I'd be careful over-egging claims in court as any form of 'greed' will be looked dimly on i guess.

All 3 signed 12 month AST J&SL in JUNE '07
Tenant 1 left December, but paid up to Feb '08 so owes 4 months...no periodic tenancy there for this one.
Tenants 2 and 3 stopped paying March...sorry, typo in first post (was late at night!! ) but did pay a small amount after meeting with them and OH plus LA so they owe most of 5 months rent taking into account July and August as periodic roll over months.

Tassotti

Hi Bungarm

Have you heard the expression 'throwing good money after bad'?

One guarantor has already expressed that they will pay £1 per month.

Can you really cope with chasing this debt for the rest of your life?

Be pleased that they are out of your property, move on and do more comprehensive checks next time.

tbs624

That's a grim tale Bungarm. Maybe one to flag up for newbie tenants who think property letting is easy.

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

......but surprise surprise, cheque bounced and at this point, the LA washed his hands of the whole thing.

Very professional of them - I take it you don't use these LAs for any other property? And again newbies who think that using a LA makes everything go smoothly may like to take note.

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

Is seven days notice enough? I see on the RLA website that they use 28 days, which I feel is far too long. Would 14 days be better or are there some sort of court guidelines abot this? I can't seem to find any.

If you're happie r with a longer period go for that: I wasn't sure how many times you'd requested repayment nor the previous lengths of time you'd already given them - it would be good to have Neverdespairgirl's input for this part.

I do agree to a certain extent with Tassotti's point on how long it may take to actually get anything out of them but, on the other hand, whether it's a LL or a T who owes a large sum of money, there's some satisfaction in at least getting a CCJ against them. Perhaps Clutton, Barnaby Bear, Pru have some comments for you?

Tassotti

It sounds like these tenants are nasty pieces of work. (police called and all that)

Do they have your home address, or was the address on the AST the LAs?

You can CCJ them if it makes you feel better (at a cost to you), but, realistically, you have no hope of seeing your money through the courts.

Personally, I would employ a debt collection agency with a 'no collection, no fee' policy. Let them chase the money. If they have no success, you know you are on a losing battle but you can still issue court proceedings and a CCJ if you wish.

As aforementioned, do comprehensive credit checks next time. Also look at getting rent guarantee insurance. I always do this for at least the first six months of a tenancy (about £50)

Be Lucky

Tass

Bungarm2001

Tassotti wrote: »

Hi Bungarm

Have you heard the expression 'throwing good money after bad'?

One guarantor has already expressed that they will pay £1 per month.

Can you really cope with chasing this debt for the rest of your life?

Be pleased that they are out of your property, move on and do more comprehensive checks next time.

I agree with you entirely, but the one guarantor who threatened to pay £1 a month if we persued payment of rent for the periodic months did actually pay off all the rent owed to the end of the AST, albeit very reluctantly.

The tenants and guarantors all passed the ref and checks, but it was a sudden and unforeseen breakdown in the tenants' friendship that caused all the problems. Up until then, they were model tenants.

When you have sharers, a massive bust up between them is something you just can't foresee or realise how far reaching an effect it can have. It's a risk we have taken in many properties over the years, and this is the first one that has gone so spectacularly wrong.

It's very tempting to walk away, believe me, but the other guarantor has very recently expressed a desire to settle the matter for his relative. This is one reason why I want to continue to persue it.

Tassotti

It sounds like you have a few young idiots in your place.

As you say, some have now paid (probably through pressure of parents)..Maybe the others will. (hoping) unless the parents are as scumbag-like as the tenants.

What I am saying is, persue the tenant/parent for the debt but don't put yourself in any danger.

'When you have sharers, a massive bust up between them is something you just can't foresee or realise how far reaching an effect it can have.'

That's not your problem..You are owed rent.

It's up to you how you deal with it. I do apologise if I taught you to suck eggs, because it is now obvious you are serious. Take a look at LLZ.

I have a feeling you may get it

Be Lucky

Let us know

Tass

Ulfar

Did you take a deposit from all 3 tenants.

If you did did you register it with a TDS scheme and was the required notification issued within 14 days.

I only ask because if you have retained their deposit and not followed the TDS guidelines you have left yourself open to a counter claim in court.

This could mean a net loss for you even if you get the outstanding rent.

Renting a house under a joint tenancy is something I would never do again, I speak as a former tenant that was let down by so called friends.

I understand this is frustrating to you as a Landlord, however from the events you have described I can see why the original tenant left.

Bungarm2001

tbs624 wrote: »

That's a grim tale Bungarm. Maybe one to flag up for newbie tenants who think property letting is easy. Very professional of them - I take it you don't use these LAs for any other property? And again newbies who think that using a LA makes everything go smoothly may like to take note. If you're happie r with a longer period go for that: I wasn't sure how many times you'd requested repayment nor the previous lengths of time you'd already given them - it would be good to have Neverdespairgirl's input for this part.

I do agree to a certain extent with Tassotti's point on how long it may take to actually get anything out of them but, on the other hand, whether it's a LL or a T who owes a large sum of money, there's some satisfaction in at least getting a CCJ against them. Perhaps Clutton, Barnaby Bear, Pru have some comments for you?

We have had 3 meetings with them. By 'them' I mean tenants 2 and 3, the ones who stayed on to August. The LA has sent 3 letters requesting payment, but no reply. Tenant 2 had a guarantor who did pay the arrears in full but only up to June, the end of the 12 month AST, and only after threatening all sorts if we persued a claim for the 2 month periodical.

So, all in all we have requested payment in writing 3 times from each tenant/guarantor, had 3 meetings with the remaining tenants, heard nowt from tenant 1 but a pohone call from the guarantor hinting that we might be able to come to an arrangment.

We have heard nothing at all from tenant 3.

The last letter requesting payment was from the LA and he gave them 21 days to reply. This was up 2 weeks ago.

tbs624

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

....So, all in all we have requested payment in writing 3 times from each tenant/guarantor, had 3 meetings with the remaining tenants, heard nowt from tenant 1 but a pohone call from the guarantor hinting that we might be able to come to an arrangment.

We have heard nothing at all from tenant 3.

The last letter requesting payment was from the LA and he gave them 21 days to reply. This was up 2 weeks ago.

Appalling: in that case I'd reckon that 7/10 days is enough time to give them in the LBA, and as I said before, include a brief statement in the letter of all previous attempts made towards resolution.

I have to say that when I saw your bit about threatening behaviour from both the tenants & the relatives/guarantors, I did view Tassotti's suggestion of the debt collection agency as maybe the best route. However, that's one that only you can judge as you know all the parties involved.

Whether this lot are from your home town/city or elsewhere, I'd let the local LL Association know who they are. Are they Uni students, and if so, have they completed their final year? If they haven't and you're registered with the Uni's Accomms Office it may also be worth mentioning their behaviour there.

I think it's good that you posted here, not least so that other tenants will see that problems can occur on both sides of letting.Good luck with it all.