Ethical question - what should I pay

sodamnfunky

Mee wrote: »

Dear All,

I'm looking after my late father's house which needs some walls etc plastered. We've obtained several quotes which have been on the hefty side. I'm contacted my Pastor for recommendations, who suggested two Eastern European men who have done some good work for the Church. They are charging 'substantially' less and have been happy to quote me for material costs and labour costs (£10 per hour(some sites state the average is £15-20 per hour)) and the amount of time a job (in this case a ceiling 4 hours (x 2 bods) should take, which the others haven't. I've decided to employee them for one job and see how they work and quality of the finish. However, what should I pay them - what they ask, or the average of the hefty three quotes I've received...? I feel that I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth, but don't want to feel that I'm exploiting them, OR may be I'm the fool here? I also realise that some UK born tradesmen may read this with dismay - sorry!
Thanks

Eastern europeans are the bane of our lives Im afraid. Undercut us at every opportunity.

roses

booty40uk wrote: »

Would you please do me and every other respectable, reliable and bonefide British builder a favour and hire a British tradesman. Thanks.

The last British tradesman I hired was a complete moron and caused more damage to my house and ended up in a court case! He said he had insurance but when it came to court, turns out he didn't.

I don't have anything against British tradesmen, just as with Polish workers it is hit and miss on who you hire.

john0612

roses wrote: »

The last British tradesman I hired was a complete moron and caused more damage to my house and ended up in a court case! He said he had insurance but when it came to court, turns out he didn't.

I don't have anything against British tradesmen, just as with Polish workers it is hit and miss on who you hire.

well i know who i'd take my chances with.

your opinion might change if you found out that your were being replaced in your job by some polish worker willing to work for half your salary.

misgrace

I see both sides as to who to employ, whether a pole or brit.

I work in the trade, and fortunately the poles havent lost me any work, but I do have a very loyal client list.
But on the hand, I work with trades, and hear first hand how some are struggling as thier jobs are being taken over.

But, in all honesty, and like I say I can see both sides, but in my experience specially in the last year, I have gone in after poles have finished, and after british trades have finished, and have not been very impressed with the british workers, and seeing thier standard of work, turn up when they feel like it, I can understand why people are turning to EE workforce.

But, me personally would be very careful when employing a EE worker, specially if you need electrics, plumbing, central heating etc, I would not trust them an inch, but as labourers, or painters, they are not too bad, and the polish plasterers I have been in after, have been very good, but that is only my opinion.

The thing you have to be careful is, that the EE are getting very cute now, they will give you a knock down price, give you a decent job (most of em), lull you into using them again, then they hike the price up, plus, once they get working the british way with the majority of british trades, they soon become slapdash, and your back to square1.

The newest lot, who havent sussed yet, is the Albanions, grab one PDQ, before they wise-up as well.:p

filey1

Do your Polish workers have a CSCS skilled worker card ? The government has put this card scheme into place to try and improve the standards in the construction industry. Unfortunatly most members of the public are not interested in the standard of work they want to save a few quid, you pay peanuts you get...........

sparky883

CSCS is not for the domestic sector and it hardly constitutes a skilled worker anyway!

Mee

filey1 wrote: »

Do your Polish workers have a CSCS skilled worker card ? The government has put this card scheme into place to try and improve the standards in the construction industry. Unfortunatly most members of the public are not interested in the standard of work they want to save a few quid, you pay peanuts you get...........

They're not Polish!
I'm interested in the standard/quality of the work hence they'll work on small job as a test. I've been given the run around by three UK builders/plasters/builders - often not turning up when agreed, taking a month to supply a quote which turned out not to be worth the paper....I have no option now but to trust my pastor when he says they are good honest men who did some good work for him.

1jim

I think reccomendations are the best way to go, does it really matter what country they are born in???? We are always told to shop around for quotes and to go off reccomendations arnt we?
I understand the argument about paying tax but do we really know how many of the UK tradesmen pay tax? (running for cover now) as when I have had quotes before I have often been told 2 prices, the cheaper being for cash! is this not the same??
I guess I would pay what they are asking for and if you are pleased with the work you could always give a little extra "to buy a pint with"

ceridwen

Mee wrote: »

Dear All,

I'm looking after my late father's house which needs some walls etc plastered. We've obtained several quotes which have been on the hefty side. I'm contacted my Pastor for recommendations, who suggested two Eastern European men who have done some good work for the Church. They are charging 'substantially' less and have been happy to quote me for material costs and labour costs (£10 per hour(some sites state the average is £15-20 per hour)) and the amount of time a job (in this case a ceiling 4 hours (x 2 bods) should take, which the others haven't. I've decided to employee them for one job and see how they work and quality of the finish. However, what should I pay them - what they ask, or the average of the hefty three quotes I've received...? I feel that I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth, but don't want to feel that I'm exploiting them, OR may be I'm the fool here? I also realise that some UK born tradesmen may read this with dismay - sorry!
Thanks

Well - on the ethical front - I believe the national average rate per hour for all jobs is currently £12 per hour.

So - on the one hand self-employed people need a bit extra because they have to cover their own pensions/holidays/sick pay. On the other hand - self-employed people can "set expenses against income" and pay less tax. So I'm guesstimating at say £12 per hour as a fair rate for a PAYE person and £15 per hour for a self-employed person.

Personally - I would accept the rate they quote and then take a look at the standard they do the job to. If they do it to the usual poor standard one finds in this country - leave it at that. If they do it to a normal (ie good) standard - then make the money up to £15 per hour with a suitable size tip.

I'm just saying what I do myself - I try to be ethical - and in return I expect them to be (ie do a decent standard job). I pay no heed to "wage differentials" - because I dont believe them to be ethical. I expect to pay someone an ethical rate for the job - no more no less - though (in my case) I am paid noticeably less than the national average.

(NB: What nationality they are would be absolutely, totally irrelevant to whether I employed them or no - people need the fair rate for the job according to the country they are living in.)

Personally...I would totally disregard other peoples opinions as to what "I could get away with"....I try (dont always succeed! - but do try) to be absolutely/strictly fair...they might like it/they might not...but that means I know I've done what I can to be able to answer for my conduct at the end of my life (I'm saying this - because I know you will be operating from the same viewpoint on this).

thebaldwindowfitter

the people /companies employing these cheap foreign tradesmen despite how good they are are setting this country up for another bout of high tradesman prices in the not to distant future due to there being no apprentices coming through the trades .companies are now emplying cheap foreign labour instead of taking on apprentices because they can pay them the same .when the labour prices goes up in there own countries they will soon start going home.