Any help appreciated please

I_Will_Catch_You_Out

Hi folks,
I'm posting on behalf of a neighbour who is having a bit of trouble regarding an item he recently sold on Ebay and could do with some advice/help to give him please.

He sold a Gents 9ct Gold Curb Bracelet for just over £200,sent it off straight away using Special Delivery and thought all was well.
The buyer has been sending him emails saying the bracelet is not the weight that was stated in the auction and wants a partial refund of £87.45p
The weight of the bracelet was 46.5 grams and the buyer is claiming it only weighs 30 grams.
The auction pictures showed the bracelet on digital scales showing at the 46.5 grams stated.

Now the Post Office receipt has a weight of 50 grams stated on it and am hoping that this in itself will show that the bracelet was at the weight stated in the auction.
As far as I know the packaging consisted of some wrapping to protect the bracelet,tape and the outer wrapping.

The buyer has opened a Paypal dispute but is constantly sending emails about a refund(approx 40 emails so far).
He is demanding that he gets a refund first before sending the bracelet back but also suggests that he is happy to received a partial refund of £87.45 and keep the bracelet.

He emailed the neighbour to say that he had been in touch with Paypal who said he is to be refunded first before sending the item back(b*llsh*t I know).
He is also very intimidating in his emails demanding to know the neighbours address so he can come and get his refund in person.

Incidently he previously messaged the neighbour to ask if he would take £180 all in but the neighbour declined his offer as it already had a bid on it.

My neighbours Paypal account is now -£180 and is worried that if the bracelet is returned,that it may not be the original one.

Is Paypal likely to side with the buyer or neighbour on this one?

I have advised him as best as I can but any more help or advice is greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

frivolous_fay

Paypal won't insist on a refund without him sending it back first.

I think he's trying it on and just trying to get a discount.

However, if you really think he's seriously considering a switch, (check his other recent purchases by the way) you could try bluffing that there are security markings on the bracelet that will need to be verified if it is returned.

The weight of the package obviously works in your favour, but if it goes to a dispute, paypal will not bother to note details like that - they'll have to be spoon-fed to them (an appropriate analogy might be grabbing paypal by its hair and forcing it to look at the slip)

catmiaow

Paypal always assumes the buyer is right, which is why you need to prove to them that is not the case. The buyer sounds like a scammer, if there was a problem with the item why would be want a partial refund. I wouldn't trust him and i definately wouldnt give out personal information. Make sure your neighbour faxes or posts to paypal the receipt, keeping the original in a safe place. He will more than likely need to ring them a lot as well to give them a helpful 'kick' to do something.
If Paypal do refund, you certainly have a case to take the buyer to small claims court and make sure your neighbour keeps all the emails from the buyer just in case.

GregtheHammer

Ask them to return it, paypal will not refund unless they do so.

It does sound like they are trying it on for a bit of discount.

dark_666_angel

If your neighbours Paypal account is currently standing at minus £180. I presume that the dispute has been opened by the buyer and Paypal have reviewed the information and have sided with the buyer and refunded his money.

Did your neighbour communicate with Paypal over the dispute? Did he provide them with the special delivery number, photo of the item on the scales etc? You can scan these in and upload them to the dispute itself.

I am sorry to say but if his account -£180, then he stands very little chance of getting the money paid back into his paypal account. And if he does get the money back (highly unlikely) but my guess (as he seems like a scammer) would be that if the buyer funded the purchase by credit/debit card then he would probably go down the chargeback route.

Your neighbour is correct that if he does return the bracelet it may not be the same one or in fact it may have missing links in it to make it weigh less.

I may be wrong but from your posting it seems like the buyer has both the money and the item?? In that case the advice would be the police but I can almost guarantee that the police will not persue it. Other than that County Court Claim, but you will need to write to the buyer informing him of your intentions of legal proceedings giving him a time to either return the item by special delivery or pay for the item.

The buyer obviously wants to keep the item, hence the pushy emails.

Jockey666

Looking at this from an outsiders point of view. How can your neighbour prove the bracelet sent weighs 46.5g. The picture of the scales will count for nothing, whats to say they weren't calibrated to plus 30g. Also whats to say a small lead fishing weight was not inside the packaging when sent? All things that will need to be covered if your neighbour is put on the spot.
If the item is returned how can your neighbour prove there has been a switch, if say an identical but lighter bracelet is returned?

Jockey666

dark_666_angel wrote: »

Your neighbour is correct that if he does return the bracelet it may not be the same one or in fact it may have missing links in it to make it weigh less.

And the question would be, how can the neighbour prove the buyer did this? Yes it will be lighter and shorter than the one described in the ebay listing so all the buyer would need to say in a county court is the item was misdescribed. The burden of prove here will be the balance of probability so who knows who would win.

dark_666_angel

Jockey666 wrote: »

And the question would be, how can the neighbour prove the buyer did this? Yes it will be lighter and shorter than the one described in the ebay listing so all the buyer would need to say in a county court is the item was misdescribed. The burden of prove here will be the balance of probability so who knows who would win.

I never said he could prove it, I meant it was a probability that it could be a different bracelet, links removed etc. It could on the other hand be returned as sent, who knows?? He might not even send it back!!

Yes the balance of probability of who would win in a county court claim. Who's to say the neighbour doesnt have the original receipt for the item/valuation etc? If you was the buyer and you received a county court claim as you have both the bracelet AND the money would you go and fight your corner? I certainly wouldnt risk a CCJ on for the "balance of probability", would you?

Obviously we can't know the whole ins and outs of the situation and even if we did it is near impossible to predict what would be ruled. But me personally I would not risk a CCJ over an ebay item.

Jockey666

dark_666_angel wrote: »

I never said he could prove it, I meant it was a probability that it could be a different bracelet, links removed etc. It could on the other hand be returned as sent, who knows?? He might not even send it back!!

Yes the balance of probability of who would win in a county court claim. Who's to say the neighbour doesnt have the original receipt for the item/valuation etc? If you was the buyer and you received a county court claim as you have both the bracelet AND the money would you go and fight your corner? I certainly wouldnt risk a CCJ on for the "balance of probability", would you?

I did't suggest you did, just simply pointing out something that would be asked if matters were to go further.

How the reciept or valuation help. If accurately described ie lenght and weight were different then who's to say the receipt is for the allegedly altered bracelet?

I'm not meaning to have a go at you just raising some valid points.

I will however answer your question, no I would not risk a CCJ, but then I'm not pulling an alleged scam on ebay. However would a low life with no desire to obtain any credit rating, buy their own home etc risk it? Probably.

Hintza

Some interesting points here but I think you are all jumping the gun.

A more pertinent question would be how does seller know their scales are accurate? They need to be checked first.

You will need to wary of the PO scales I imagine asistant could have just rounded it up or down. If they didn't 3.5g for envelope and packing sounds awfully light.

Scammer buyer? Could be, but sounds more like a trader.

So first things first seller needs to check scales (and I haven't a clue how you do that accurately) if OK they need to get the item back before any refund.