periodic tenancy notice - the definitive answer?

clutton_2

to quote tessa sandersons book

""a tenancy can end by the tenant moving out at the end of the fixed term, or, if he stays on after the end of the fixed term, after having given notice of at least one month ending at the end of a rental period""

tbs624

Bungarm2001 wrote: »

Rent on the AST was due 28th of every month, payable in advance.
AST started 28th June and ended 27th June.

Tenant stopped paying rent after paying in January, gave keys back 15th August. Therefore, we are owed (as far as I can see it) March, April, May and June rents, plus July and August, even tho the tenant gave the keys back on the 15th.

Any thoughts anyone?

See a Court of Appeal case - Laine & Laine v Cadwallader & Cadwallader 2001- for reference:the T dropping the keys through the LLs letterbox was an offer on the tenants' part to terminate the contract,and the offer did not have to be accepted by the LL. The Appeal Court Judge said:

"In the present case the judge, having rightly concluded that the landlord could not rely on clause 5 of the tenancy agreement, seems to have overlooked the tenant's obligation to serve notice to quit if he wishes unilaterally to determine a periodic tenancy, an obligation which is not ousted by any statutory provision in the Housing Act 1988."

And:

"......It seems clear that there was no express acceptance of the offer so as to terminate the tenancy with immediate effect. The landlords seem to have regarded the dropping-in of the keys as informal notice to quit or an offer to terminate. They seem to have agreed to terminate the tenancy at the end of the minimum period for which a proper notice could have been given (see the contents of the amended particulars of claim). So long as neither they nor the tenant did anything which could be said to have altered the position during the ensuing four weeks and the evidence, so far as it goes, does not suggest that there was any relevant development during that period, I see no reason why the court should not now regard the tenancy as having terminated by agreement when the landlords agreed that it would terminate, namely four weeks after they received the keys. The result is that they are, as claimed, entitled to recover rent for that four-week period which is the issue in this appeal."

Agree with Premier's point on whether or not you are /were able to re-let the property, obviously with appropriate deduction for relevant costs for finding any new tenant.

DFC - I would maybe agree with your points about notice *within* a Fixed Term but I did notice that, in one of the tenancy deposit adjudications, a tenant was penalised for not giving notice to the LL within an FT? (Have link somewhere,but hopefully someone else may post it up before I start looking for it)

I don't see though how a tenant can *not* have to give one month's notice under a monthly periodic (or say 3 months' on a quarterly periodic) given what the Cadwallader case says .

See also Protection from Eviction Act S 5. Validity of notices to quit.


(1) Subject to subsection (1B) below no notice by a landlord or a tenant to quit any premises let (whether before or after the commencement of this Act) as a dwelling shall be valid unless—

(a)it is in writing and contains such information as may be prescribed, and

(b)it is given not less than 4 weeks before the date on which it is to take effect.

Debt_Free_Chick

tbs624 wrote: »

DFC - I would maybe agree with your points about notice *within* a Fixed Term but I did notice that, in one of the tenancy deposit adjudications, a tenant was penalised for not giving notice to the LL within an FT? (Have link somewhere,but hopefully someone else may post it up before I start looking for it)

I think we're looking for the statutory/legal reference that requires the tenant to give notice.

As far as I can see, the Housing Acts give plenty of protection to the tenant by requiring that the LL gives notice - but there seems to be no statutory requirement for the tenant to do so.

tbs624

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

I think we're looking for the statutory/legal reference that requires the tenant to give notice.

...which can also allow for discussion around the topic. It's important to remember that a tenant may act on what is written on here about notice, without getting their own legal advice (always recommended that they do so on Notice issues) and woul probably like to know how that may affect their deposit.

Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »

I As far as I can see, the Housing Acts give plenty of protection to the tenant by requiring that the LL gives notice - but there seems to be no statutory requirement for the tenant to do so.

Maybe read back through my post above

Debt_Free_Chick

tbs624 wrote: »

...which can also allow for discussion around the topic. It's important to remember that a tenant may act on what is written on here about notice, without getting their own legal advice (always recommended that they do so on Notice issues) and woul probably like to know how that may affect their deposit.

Not disagreeing .... just trying to establish whether there is a statutory requirement, along the lines that the LL has under the Housing Acts.

Maybe read back through my post above

I'm not sure that the Laine/Cadwallader case provides the answer, as the Tenancy Agreement in that case contained a notice clause. In any event, I haven't been able to find the full judgement on the internet - it's not in the BAILII database.

I'm interested in the legal position where the Tenancy Agreement has no such clause.

FWIW, I believe there is no statutory requirement for a tenant to give notice, but that common/contract law applies. The contract terminates when the fixed period ends - but the Housing Act provides for the tenant to continue to have the statutory right to occupy the property for a further "period", each time the rent is paid. In law, it could be argued that the contract ends when the rent is not paid. But we know that's not the case as the LL cannot simply evict (or take repossession) if the rent is unpaid - the Housing Act places a statutory obligation on the LL to give the tenant notice.

To be clear, I can see nothing in the Housing Acts that places an obligation on the tenant to give notice to quit, but I imagine there's a common/contract law requirement to do so .... would be good to have clarification of this, simply to satisfy my own idle curiosity

hgllgh

Ditto ... I can't find any legal references stating that the one months notice period served by a tenant in a statutory periodic tenancy actually begins on the next payment date....

this only seems to apply to the landlord when serving a section 21 repossession order where it definitively states that the notice must end on the payment date .... which sounds fair, after all the landlord is booting the tenant out!

Debt_Free_Chick

hgllgh wrote: »

Ditto ... I can't find any legal references stating that the one months notice period served by a tenant in a statutory periodic tenancy actually begins on the next payment date....

I can't find anything requiring the tenant to give any notice at all - have you found something about notice?

dys

Notice:
Normal shorthold assured: it says in the contract when it ends.

Statutory periodic: one month's rent period and this means that eg rent date 10th sep. I want to leave on 16th Nov. Today is 19th Sep. Legally my notice period is from today 19th Sep to 9th Nov, ie the date before the end of the next rent period. However in practice the landlord will probably accept one calendar month's notice from you regardless on when your leave date is in relation to the rent date.

clutton_2

hg says "" Ditto ... I can't find any legal references stating that the one months notice period served by a tenant in a statutory periodic tenancy actually begins on the next payment date...."

clutton said "" to quote tessa sandersons book

""a tenancy can end by the tenant moving out at the end of the fixed term, or, if he stays on after the end of the fixed term, after having given notice of at least one month ending at the end of a rental period""

tessa is one of THE most knowledgeable lawyers in LL&T legislation around - i would have thought this might qualify as a "legal" reference - it comes from page 50 of "Renting - the essential guide to tenants rights" by Tessa Shepperson (got the name wrong intially - sorry) LAWPACK publishers 2007

scrummy_mummy_2

clutton wrote: »

to quote tessa sandersons book

""a tenancy can end by the tenant moving out at the end of the fixed term, or, if he stays on after the end of the fixed term, after having given notice of at least one month ending at the end of a rental period""

Blimey, an olympic javelin thrower AND a legal eagle!...:rotfl: Many strings to one bow!