Replace 33 year old gas boiler with gas or electric?

pennipincha

Wondering if any of you could give me some advice.

We have a 33 year old (is this a record?) Potterton diplomat open flue boiler in our flat in its original compartment/cupboard - in the middle of the flat i.e. no outside walls. We have recently had a Corgi engineer service it and he pointed out that we have a ventilation problem. The previous flat owner has blocked off the high vent that went from the boiler compartment into the kitchen by putting a kitchen cupboard over it. The low vent - also into the kitchen - is not big enough for current standards. The vent to the outside is blocked i.e. covered by a flyscreen. Our boiler is 'at risk' because of the ventilation issues and now has a warning sticker on it and has been turned off. Hopefully we can sort out the ventilation problems by removing the kitchen cupboard and fly screen and increasing the size of all vents which will be messy and inconvenient. I am waiting for a quote for the cost of this - no doubt it will be costly too.

The Corgi guy also said that the boiler is a 'death trap' due to its age and may be OK for another winter but that it should be replaced. It has been heating water and working with our radiators very well for the past 4 years that we have had the flat. I have also installed a combined smoke and carbon monoxide detector/alarm outside the boiler compartment, just in case.

My first question is....
Is there any particular reason why an old boiler could be more likely to 'have a problem' and emit deadly carbon monoxide than a new boiler assuming the ventilation is correct/fixed?

Second question.....
After reading all your posts I am thinking as the flat is small (2 beds, kitchen diner, living room and bathroom) and we already have an immersion heater Why not get a few electric convection heaters and leave the gas boiler off permanently?

Third question ...
If we do replace the boiler with a new gas boiler would it be better to get a wall mounted one fixed in the dining area with a balanced flue direct to the outside rather than putting it in the old boiler compartment (then we don't need all the vents in our internal walls and can keep our kitchen cupboard)?

Question 4....
Would we be better off replacing the old boiler with an electric wet system boiler installed in the existing boiler compartment?

Thanks in advance

4$£&*(£$&*(!

1 - technically, not really. So long as boilers are maintained in a proper way they should be safe even if it's old. The main thing that's changed is the technology in how they operate and draw in air, older boilers tend to be open flue and draw air in from within the room, newer boilers tend to be room sealed so are safer.

2 - You could do, only you know how much efficient this will be for you. If you're in a lot in the daytime this could work out cheaper. I know someone whose entire electric bill is about £900 over the year for all day and night heating, cheaper than it would cost me to do the same on gas. However this takes a lot of getting used to and can be more costly than on-demand gas. I like a cool bedroom at night and warm in the mornings, these heaters charge up in the night so I'd hate having this set-up. Also if you set it wrong overnight, that's what you're stuck with for the next 24 hours. You could either be sweating buckets or shivering. Expect to watch the weather forecasts a lot more closely with this set-up.

3 - Up to you, discuss how practical it would be with your installer.

4 - Already pretty much covered under 2. Remember unlike gas, electricity is 100% efficient for heating, so what you put in is what you get out. Gas, whilst not as efficient, costs a hell of a lot less than electricity though so whilst only 70-80% efficient, your electricity will cost you more to run. Think of that 20-30% lost efficiency - does your electric cost only 30% more than gas? Chances are it's closer to 50% more so you're losing 20% on costs.

Cardew

Hi,
I appreciate you are new to the forum but you really shouldn't post 2 identical posts in different forums. May I suggest you delete the one in 'Fuel and other heating' to save the same points being posted by different people.

This is what I wrote in the other thread.

I will give it a go!

Firstly, there have been new regulations on ventilation for boilers. My boiler is in a purpose built outside boiler room attached to the garage. For 15 years it was OK but then I have had to have a new additional ventilation vent cut through the wall.

I won't advise on the safety issue as I am not qualified to do so, but personally I can't see that any boiler in a properly vented situation should present a problem. As for the "its a Death Trap" comment but it is OK carry on using it for another year!!!!!!

Question 2 The electric v gas running costs question has been discussed in several threads in this forum and I suggest you read them. Essentially it boils down to higher running costs of electric(but no maintenance or new boiler installation costs) versus lower gas prices. Lots of other factors - economy 7 etc to be put into the equation.

Why not give it a trial? A few heaters won't cost much.

Question 3. A wall mounted Combi is likely to be cheaper to install. You can choose to have it supplying your HW tank(I would) or remove tank and have it supplying HW on demand. No losses from HW tank but not a plentiful supply of HW - particularly in winter.

Question 4 No No No! The option in question 2 will provide the same heat for a fraction of the price of installation.

pennipincha

ooops! sorry, having problems finding my way around these boards - didn't know I could delete once posted. have now deleted other post.

BerkshireBaz

I'm going to echo many of CitySlicker's points by what I say. The Potterton Diplomat was a good old boiler - but with some issues on the pilot and thermocouple assembly when it got converted (flame lift off). That aside, it was good, but pretty inefficient. The ventilation issues are easily solved. As long as the boiler is sealed okay then it will not be a death trap. You ask if there is a particular problem likely to cause safety issues. On the front and back of the boiler are two steel plates. These cover asbestos (or supalux) gaskets. We used to renew these, and you can still easily get supalux and cut them to fit. There is also a asbestos string seal around the burner plate. This was always a problem. However, as long as the burner burns okay, the boiler is properly serviced, and the flue is intact, then it should be fine - especially with your detectors. As for electric, well that's what I've done, and I'm a (ex-gas) heating engineer! Panel heaters are cheap, smart and work great. Check the ring main with your sparkie though, as you'll have a pull on the ring of over 40 amps if five 2 kilowatt heaters come on at once! The smaller the property, the cheaper electric is against gas. Prior to the latest increases in energy costs, a report found that an electric heating system can be 46% cheaper than a gas one on lifetime costs! If you do go for a new gas boiler then it can be sited pretty much anywhere, as long as you don't mind looking at it. You can have vertical flues (to go up through the roof) - and it wouldn't be 'balanced'. I see no point in using an electric boiler. This is pointless, if you want electric then go for panel heaters to heat at source as it's 100% efficient. Anyway, you'd would have to get your heating system very clean for an electric boiler. Frankly, it's a no-no. By the way, put a timer on your immersion heater (am and pm sets) and you'll find you only need it on for about 25 minutes per person per setting if you shower rather than bath. If you do this then get a timer which will take the three kilowatts that your immersion heater uses. Only use a digital one, not an analogue (even though the package says they will take 3 kW, they don't! They get warm and render the on/off cams useless).

Cheers.

BerkshireBaz

By the way, 33 years isn't even close to a record. My mum-in-law still has her Vulcan back boiler which was installed in 1965...43 years and counting! They REALLY don't make gas boilers like they used to. Modern ones tend to last for 10 years (officially) and probably 12 max. Too clever by half, modern boilers. Very safe, but full of devices to make them so, and fuel efficient. In the 'ol days 'plumbers' would work on anything, but now they'll recoil in horror if you mention some European names to them - and rightly so to!

Pssst

There is no real reason why your boiler would be a "death trap" simply because of its age. If it is regularly maintained by a good enginner then it will continue to work safely. The only issue is the ventilation which is lacking. There is much misinformation about Carbon Monoxide,all the same,id advise anyone who has an openflued appliance to have a CO detector of the electronic variety and to have the appliance maintained.