Manual for streets / 20mph limits.

tomstickland

One of my pet hates is the obsession with 20 limits magically making roads safer. Properly designed road layout and shared space schemes can achieve this, but changing road signs from 30 to 20 achieves virtually nothing IMO.
For example, I already travel at 20mph in my local estate because there's parked cars etc; I don't need my intelligence to be insulted by a bunch of busy bodies proclaiming how they've made the world a safer place.

Anyway, as part of my research I've been reading the government manual for streets, published in 2007.
It's a very well written document IMO.
Anyway, if you ever wonder what it says about residential speed limits start at page 87:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/sustainable/manforstreets/pdfmanforstreets.pdf

Inactive

tomstickland wrote: »

One of my pet hates is the obsession with 20 limits magically making roads safer. Properly designed road layout and shared space schemes can achieve this, but changing road signs from 30 to 20 achieves virtually nothing IMO.
For example, I already travel at 20mph in my local estate because there's parked cars etc; I don't need my intelligence to be insulted by a bunch of busy bodies proclaiming how they've made the world a safer place.

You may well do Tom, however sadly many do not, if they did, there would be no need for such legislation.

The same applies to other speed limits, many drivers see them as a target limit, instead of a maximum limit, that should only be reached in ideal conditions.

Keith

Many of my local roads have had the limit reduced from 40 to 30.

Council minutes revealed that 3 of 4 councilors wanted them to remain at 40.

Yet they chose to reduce the speed limit and then fit speed cameras to enforce them.

tomstickland

Inactive wrote: »

You may well do Tom, however sadly many do not, if they did, there would be no need for such legislation.

The same applies to other speed limits, many drivers see them as a target limit, instead of a maximum limit, that should only be reached in ideal conditions.

My argument is more a "stop the meddling and self congratulation".
Every tin pot local politician can be seen to be "doing something" by proclaiming their brilliance in asking for 20 limits, when it'll actually achieve virtually nothing.

Most research I've read about has found that reducing a posted limit has a very weak effect on the 85th percentile speed. As the manual says, road layout is key to reducing speeds.

Debt_Free_Chick

tomstickland wrote: »

My argument is more a "stop the meddling and self congratulation".
Every tin pot local politician can be seen to be "doing something" by proclaiming their brilliance in asking for 20 limits, when it'll actually achieve virtually nothing

Completely agree. Putting up a sign achieves nothing at all - we get "sign blindness" after a while. And most of those guilty of speeding are locals - they know the road. They know they can travel "safely" at 30, 40 or 50 mph.

However, in my experience, it's local residents that lobby for reduced speed limits. And if sufficient lobby, the local politicians have little choice. After all, that's a large part of their job - to deliver what the electorate want.

In my tiny rural Parish, the Parish Council have been campaigning for reduced speed limits for more than 10 years!!!! And they've built reserves to pay for it. Why? Because the local Highways Agency repeatedly advises that putting up new signs will not work - what's needed are measures that lead drivers to believe that there's a hazard/risk in travelling too fast. So they've recommended the PC consider build-outs, chicanes, rumble strips etc etc. None of these are ideal, IMHO, in a very rural area within an AONB.

Nevertheless, the local residents want a lower speed limit and the PC keeps banging on about it :mad:

There's a law against murder - it still happens. Telling drivers that the speed limit is 20mph is no way at all of getting them to drive at that speed - or at any speed which is safer to all concerned. They know the road. They know what they can get away with ... most of the time. Until there's a fatality.

tomstickland

Removing the white lines from the centre of the road makes a lot of difference.

Debt_Free_Chick

tomstickland wrote: »

Removing the white lines from the centre of the road makes a lot of difference.

Removes a "target" or a guideline?

We have very few white lines. None at all in the village, but that doesn't stop people driving through at 50 mph when there's only just enough room for two vehicles to pass eachother. No chance if one is a tractor!

And ... one of the culprits is ..... Chairman of the Parish Council!!!! :mad: :rotfl:

hewhoisnotintheknow

i dont like the 20 limits but i also dont like the shared space schemes (allthough i agree they are probably the best solution.

The reason i dont like them is you get stupid people in bmw x5's etc pushing their way about as there are no markings etc telling them where they should be, then if you have an accident with one, theres no obvious right or wrong, just your word against theirs

thescouselander

Thats nothing compared to the number of speed bumps, chicanes and raised junctions we have round our way - its completely out of hand.

The parish council, supported by the local residents are trying to lobby the local counil to get the excessive traffic calming measures removed but there has been no progress. Its rubbish.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

If you want safer roads, then get safer drivers. To do that, get extra police, and extra training.

No amount of silly signs, painted lines, and stupid road calming measures can compete.

rog2

Our local council has recently dropped the 'main road' speed limit from 40 to 30 mph.
This was their 'response' to years of requests for a 'pedestrian crossing' which had been strongly resisted by the local convenience shop keeper, as he stood to lose one, possibly two 'parking spaces' where 'passing' lorries would pull in, on the opposite side of the road, and their drivers would run accross to make their 'purchases'.
Unfortunately, in March of this year, an 84 year old lady, who had lived all her life in the village, tried to negociate her way around one of these 'passing trade' lorries to get accross to the shop to buy milk - she was hit, and killed, by another lorry driver, whose visibility had been 'impaired' by the parked lorry.
We now have our pedestrian crossing.