Trains: What’s a fair fare system? blog discussion

Former_MSE_Archna

This is the discussion to link on the back of Martin's blog. Please read the blog first, as this discussion follows it.

Read Martin's "Trains: What’s a fair fare system?" Blog.

Click reply to discuss below.

beaker141

Use the car instead !!

With a wife and three children the train is never really going to present a feasibile option even with family tickets etc.

Perhaps accompanied children under 16 should always be free ?

Discogod

i like your thinking Martin though there's a part of me that would be dissappointed at losing the 'find a cheap train' hunt :P

-Alex-

So a 10 mile trip on the train to my local town on the train would cost a whopping £12 during the day and an excruciating £18 during morning peak time travel? I know my local train services are subsidised, but with those suggested prices I could probably go by car, park for a few hours and still have some spare change! Obviously such an idea doesn't work everywhere.

aleph_0

What about demand management? There are a few places I could think of where there are a choice of routes to London, one taking longer, the faster one being more crowded. Offering cheaper tickets on the less crowded route is very sensible. Similarly, offering a set number of advance purchase tickets on routes encourages me to take a longer route and utilise the network more efficiently (by buying the tickets that are still available, or buying cheaper advance purchase tickets going via. a longer route). Making the shortest route cheaper is likely to put a high load on certain sections (alternatively the longer route inherits the cheaper price, but that will soon give the split-ticketing situation that we have now).

The current system is a mess, but I can't see the proposed system improving things. The split-ticketing around the peak situation would remain also, and would be difficult to resolve without lots of different semi-peak tickets.

JimmyTheWig

It depends what you're trying to achieve.
If we're trying to make money for the train operators then 60p per mile per person is fine.
But if we're trying to encourage people to use the train rather than go by car then the base cost needs to be much lower. Much, much lower.
It is rarely more convenient to go by train than by car. So the base cost needs to be more like 10p per mile per person. Maybe with a premium for going into London?

And I think the same is true with busses. Whilst it's cheaper and easier to drive than to go by bus, I know which one I'm going to choose.

biscuit

-Alex- wrote: »

So a 10 mile trip on the train to my local town on the train would cost a whopping £12 during the day and an excruciating £18 during morning peak time travel?

Martin said the prices in his example are "made up figures, to give an indication of how the system would work rather than exact prices".

In terms of what I'd do, I'd have a very close look at how rail fares are organised in other countries around Europe. In Switzerland for example, you can pay about £3,000 for a year's pass for unlimited travel on the country's trains, buses, trams, etc.

Also, why is a single ticket often much more than half the price of a return ticket? I don't get that at all!

Finally, I once tried to buy a ticket from A->B and was sold one from A->C because it was cheaper. This was stupid because station B was between stations A and C!!!

I think that was because the station I wanted to get off at was much less used than the following station, so by wanting to get off there, I had to pay a penalty fare. Bit mad really.

ajbaker

It’s doesn’t take into account the privatisation and multi-company nature of the industry.

And therein is the reason I will take the car every time.
Until we have a reliable, cheap and integrated public transport system it will always be easier, cheaper and more relaxing to take the car.

cello57

ajbaker wrote: »

And therein is the reason I will take the car every time.
Until we have a reliable, cheap and integrated public transport system it will always be easier, cheaper and more relaxing to take the car.

£3000 for unlimited travel? I have a Peugeot 306 that would cost £1000 to buy now and £300 to insure, and £120 for tax. MOT and servicing probably takes another £300. The rest . . . any where you like for four people at a time at 56 Mpg.

Stuff trains and buses, it's a mug's game.

biscuit

cello57 wrote: »

£3000 for unlimited travel? I have a Peugeot 306 that would cost £1000 to buy now and £300 to insure, and £120 for tax. MOT and servicing probably takes another £300. The rest . . . any where you like for four people at a time at 56 Mpg.

Stuff trains and buses, it's a mug's game.

And how much would unlimited driving in Switzerland cost you in fuel?

aleph_0

ajbaker wrote: »

Until we have a reliable, cheap and integrated public transport system it will always be easier, cheaper and more relaxing to take the car.

Not *always*. For example, London to Edinburgh tickets start from not much over £10 each way. Wales to London can be done for £30 travelling in First Class, journey time 2 hours, with nicely spaced out seats and refreshments included. Getting into the centre of London by car is likely to be more expensive (at least compared to the around £10 standard class ticket), more difficult and less relaxing!