Trains: Sneaky restriction on First Open Returns from 7th Sept 2008

MKB

From the Virgin website, but I'm guessing this will apply to all Train Operating Companies:

First Open Returns
For journeys after 7th September, your outward journey must be made on the date specified, prior to 7th September it can be made up to one calendar month after the date specified. Return portions of a return ticket can be made within one calendar month. Reservations are not required but are recommended for longer journeys. The outward portion of the ticket is valid only in conjunction with the unused return portion.

So, you can pay hundreds of pounds for a flexible ticket, and find you can now only travel outbound on the date on the ticket, unless you pay the admin fee for a refund and associated hassle. You'd think, for what the TOC's charge for these tickets, they'd be bending over backwards to make them as flexible and passenger-friendly as possible.

robt_2

A survey was done - and it will affect less than half of a percentage of people, whilst stopping people using the same one 20 times a month to commute with. AND you can break your journey for an overnight stay if you want to.

Before ranting - is it actually going to affect you, or anyone else you know? Also, it is the 'Anytime' tickets as a whole, it is not unique to Virgin or first class.

Altarf

robt wrote: »

whilst stopping people using the same one 20 times a month to commute with

No it won't, they will just change the methodology of their fraud. As you point out at the moment if you are dishonest and commute between A & B then people can use the same Open Return until it is punched by a ticket inspector.

Now all they will do is buy two Anytime returns, one from A to B, and one from B to A. OK they have to use the outward part of the A to B and B to A on the date on the ticket, but they can continue abusing the return parts of each as before for the rest of the month.

robt_2

Altarf wrote: »

No it won't, they will just change the methodology of their fraud. As you point out at the moment if you are dishonest and commute between A & B then people can use the same Open Return until it is punched by a ticket inspector.

Now all they will do is buy two Anytime returns, one from A to B, and one from B to A. OK they have to use the outward part of the A to B and B to A on the date on the ticket, but they can continue abusing the return parts of each as before for the rest of the month.

That is true. Lets hope it helps to reduce the extent of the scam though (which is huge).

Altarf

Well rather than fiddle about with the T&Cs on the tickets, just put some ticket inspectors on the trains.

robt_2

Altarf wrote: »

Well rather than fiddle about with the T&Cs on the tickets, just put some ticket inspectors on the trains.

And while we are at it, lets put a police officer on every single street, just incase some crime happens?

Automatic ticket barriers which swallow used tickets at all the London Termini would be a very good start to stopping this scam. The 170 of them at Waterloo should help significantly once they are all in operation.

MKB

robt wrote: »

Before ranting - is it actually going to affect you, or anyone else you know? Also, it is the 'Anytime' tickets as a whole, it is not unique to Virgin or first class.

Who's ranting? By making that accusation, you're the first on the thread to bring in a level of unnecessarily emotive language.

Yes, it does affect me.

I did say that I guessed it wasn't unique to Virgin.

I can't help but wonder if you have a vested interest here, given the way you are so defensive of the downgrading of the flexibility of the most expensive tickets. Those affected may be only 0.005% of passengers, but there will be more who pay for the flexibility but then don't need it, and we are certainly a considerably higher percentage in terms of the revenue share.

Voyager2002

I am surprised by this news: it always used to be the case that the outbound portion of a flexible ticket could only be used on the date stated. Since there is no discount for advance purchase, anyone using this kind of ticket can easily postpone purchase until they are sure when they want to travel. So I cannot get upset about this change, and appreciate that it may help to reduce levels of fraud.

robt_2

MKB wrote: »

Who's ranting? By making that accusation, you're the first on the thread to bring in a level of unnecessarily emotive language.

Yes, it does affect me.

I did say that I guessed it wasn't unique to Virgin.

I can't help but wonder if you have a vested interest here, given the way you are so defensive of the downgrading of the flexibility of the most expensive tickets. Those affected may be only 0.005% of passengers, but there will be more who pay for the flexibility but then don't need it, and we are certainly a considerably higher percentage in terms of the revenue share.

You were quite clearly ranting in the original post - don't try to throw it back at me.

How does it affect you? Genuine question, not having a go. Please don't state the obvious that you break your journey outbound - just an example of how it affects you.

And I'm not defensive about it - I'm pleased that it will help towards eliminating ticket fraud which is a vast problem, and if that means inconvieniencing a tiny proportion of people (you stated 0.005% of people who buy a particular type of ticket) then I am all for it.

dzug1

Voyager2002 wrote: »

I am surprised by this news: it always used to be the case that the outbound portion of a flexible ticket could only be used on the date stated. Since there is no discount for advance purchase, anyone using this kind of ticket can easily postpone purchase until they are sure when they want to travel. So I cannot get upset about this change, and appreciate that it may help to reduce levels of fraud.

Well many years ago (many many years) single tickets were valid for 3 days (outside London) and returns for 3 months. Can't recall if there was any restriction on the outward journey.

Things change. I have no doubt they will do so again.

Altarf

robt wrote: »

And while we are at it, lets put a police officer on every single street, just incase some crime happens?

Funnily enough your sarcastic comment has been adopted by my local train operating company.

They recently installed ticket barriers at my station, which means that they have to pay a newly employed member of staff to stand by them for 14 hours every day. The only problem is that apart from the morning rush hour and evening rush hour, he has nothing to do, as almost nobody uses the train during the day.

So why is it more sensible to pay a police officer, oops sorry, ticket inspector to stand on a single station, just in case a crime happens than to actually put them on the train?