£24050 + Vat for a new line

diamonds

Openreach should in-house not outsource, the cost would then be at least 70% cheaper than a " contractor "

OFcok should have split Openreach from BT, Openreach should not be a for profit company, why ?

1) I dont see Railtrack being operated by A train company,

2 ) BT went tits up we'd like Northern Rock end up in the !!!! as tax payers


saying that thanks to the Openworkers for all they do, thank BT for extortionate Openreach rates that now substitute what the monopoly used to bring in, more since the 2000's explosion in carriers/internet telephony

redux

MrsTine wrote: »

I'd go VOIP... depending on the quality and line length there is some new technology coming out at the moment that should help with that - Tiscali have just come out with Annex M and BT are close behind with THEIR new technology too

The day that Tiscali have a technical lead over BT, we'll all have indigestion from eating our hats

Antispam

Why do we pay line rental. Surely if ths posts are old and need replacing the cusomer pays from the line rental over months/years

davy_fulla

diamonds wrote: »

Openreach should in-house not outsource, the cost would then be at least 70% cheaper than a " contractor "

OFcok should have split Openreach from BT, Openreach should not be a for profit company, why ?

1) I dont see Railtrack being operated by A train company,

2 ) BT went tits up we'd like Northern Rock end up in the !!!! as tax payers


saying that thanks to the Openworkers for all they do, thank BT for extortionate Openreach rates that now substitute what the monopoly used to bring in, more since the 2000's explosion in carriers/internet telephony

I don't know where you get the 70% figure from but I do agree with you that it would be nice if everything was kept in-house like was the case many years ago. The direct costs for contract work carried out will obviously be higher but the use of contract labour does actually work out cheaper overall, e.g. Openreach don't have to pay for things such as vehicles, tools, training or (in the longer run) pensions. There would be no benefit to Openreach of using contract labour if it were more expensive overall. Openreach does also have its own network build engineers and work is also issued to them weherever possible.

Just about all utilities use contractors now for their civils and cabling work as its cheaper for them to. Like I say I'm all for direct labour but its just not the way utilities work now.

To be honest I'm gonna finish my posting at that as I can see it descending into another BT/Openreach bashing thread. I've just offered some advice to the OP but the thread is rapidly descending into the realms of how BT/Openreach rip everybody off without any substantiation of those comments. As I am part of Openreach I don't really want to be associated with this.

I'm not taking the huff as I know how forum threads can quickly turn away from the purpose the OP intended but I think it best to 'bail out' while the going's good.

blue_monkey_2

just out of interest davy_fulla, does this mean that the OP would then 'own' the line and the poles as she is paying to have it put in? What if someone else nearby wants use it? does the OP then get a refund? Surely if she has to pay for the work then it would be hers?

I am not going to start bashing but I am interested.

davy_fulla

Atomised wrote: »

Of course it shouldn't be free ,just fairly priced. BT should be investigated because they get away with too much. When a fault is on the line itself , and even the visiting engineer says "It isn't your fault and you won't be charged, there is a problem with the way the line has been put in" Why should the consumer have to pay?

BT even charge you for moving into a new house and activating a phone line that is already installed! How is that fair? Over £100 to flick a switch?

One last post on this then I'm done.

Would you not say a fair price is what Openreach charges the CP to cover its costs only, i.e. no profit margin? These costs are charged to the CP and it is up to them whether they pass them on to the EU. This also includes Openreach giving an allowance of several thousand pounds to get the 1st line installed.

What BT, or any CP for that matter, charges for a reconnection is entirely down to the CP. Just because an engineer does not visit the house does not mean a switch has just been flicked. Wires have to be rerun in the telephone exchange and work can be carried out between the exhange and the pole ouside your house without the EU even realising. Once again, Openreach have no say whatsoever over connection fees as we have no contractual relationship with the EU. That's what I'm getting at about this thread digressing from its original question.

Bluemonkey, you were asking about the OP 'owning' the new network. By law, to do this they would have to have a licence to own and operate telecoms apparatus (very expensive). They would then have to pay for public liability insurance (in case the poles were pulled over for example) and for the poles to be tested every 5years as they currently are. Then if the cables or poles became damaged the owner would then have to pay for them to be repaired. Really not worth it to be honest

Some larger establishments such as universities do actually buy their network from BT but they have an operating licence and can afford to pay for the upkeep.

ORE

Atomised wrote: »

Of course it shouldn't be free ,just fairly priced. BT should be investigated because they get away with too much. When a fault is on the line itself , and even the visiting engineer says "It isn't your fault and you won't be charged, there is a problem with the way the line has been put in" Why should the consumer have to pay?

BT even charge you for moving into a new house and activating a phone line that is already installed! How is that fair? Over £100 to flick a switch?

i have just done an install today where a Person has just moved down the road. There was an NTE in the house and a wire from the pole to the house but it took me 2 hrs 50 mins to get the dialtone to the house, having to divert pairs as since that house has had its phone cut off the lines have been used elsewhere. So not just flicing a switch, although all i did at the customersend was went in and showed them it worked. so not just a case of flicking a switch when the lines are already there.

what was wrong with the way the line had been put in that you were charged for. if it was an engineering fault then you shouldnt have been charged but its your CP you need to take it up with...It isnt openreach that pass the charge to you so the engineer maybe thought you wouldnt be.

bikeman

Sounds like a load of crap to me. Are they saying that they wont upgrade an exchange unless they can recover the cost divided across all it's connected customers? It's called investment in moderninsing their network infrastructure.

If the poles are that weak that thay cant take an additional cable then they are a safety hazard and BT should be replacing them anyway.

I'd have a chat with Ofcom...

On second thoughts Ofcom are a waste of space so you'd probably be better off embaressign BT.

Give the Sun/Mirror a call.

Stang

I had 4 X iSDN2 lines removed from my home office and have signed up to voip (asterisk) all controlled via the companies control pages, with a bit of traffic shaping you can hardly tell the difference in quality. The functionality is light years ahead of standard line.

The main office is also now completely VOIP and the savings in line rental have amounted to around £8000 this year :T

BT only gets the line rental on the broadband line and each telephone number I have costs £1 per month if you have a 084 number I think they are free and the call charges are very competitive you never have to change numbers again

I really would not give BT £100 never mind £24000 :rotfl:

JOel_2

I completely agree with the BT chaps on this one. BT have a duty to provide you with a single connection to your home, anything above that is chargeable. Its a fair practice, otherwise everyone else has to foot the bill for Joe Bloggs who wants extra lines to his house. Now it is a bit of a lottery as to whether your local infrastructure will allow you to have a second line at a dirt cheap cost. Some unlucky people will end up with huge bills for adding a second line.

Its fair to say that if they upgrade the infrastructure at no cost to you, it will take them a much longer time to even make dent in their costs from the income they will get from your single line. It doesn't make business sense to them, especially when they will probably need to rip it out in the next 5-10 years when they begin large scale rollouts of the 21CN, and as a consumer, its not best value for us.

Everyone knows a lot of BT's network is ageing, and despite what people may think, they are investing heavily in new exchanges, and new switch gear to provide more flexibility, easier installs, and better connections for everyone. Unfortunatly this is not an overnight job, and more often than not, its the high demand areas that get these services first, mainly because these areas provide the necessary cash to upgrade the more rural areas.

On the original topic, there are lots of alternative services, VoIP, Callsign etc, all are good alternatives to a physical second line.

Joel