Cheap "guaranteed" pension

cheerfulcat

dunstonh wrote:

Is it better for someone to have no retirement planning because they couldnt get access to advice or is it better to have an average product that at least gave them something that represented value for money over the term? Even if it wasnt the cheapest or best performing?

Well, I suppose the stakeholder pension was meant to be that product. But it still needs to be *sold* by someone, and no-one seems to want to do that! I agree, better half a loaf than no bread.

I don't know. I think the medical profession is an absolute disaster. When you sit down and think about various professions, is there really one that could be considered whiter than white all the time? Although the financial services industry has a lot of blame rightfully, the regulator, and therefore the Government has just as much.

I was thinking more along the lines of people being able, indeed encouraged, to operate purely on a basis of financial self-interest - from those dreaming up financial products to those selling them ( I'm including personal loans and mortgages as well as various kinds of insurance ) . You're right, of course, no profession is free of rogues.

Indeed, its now got to the point where MPs (on both sides), including Tony Blair, attack the FSA over its stance on various issues. How can a Govt department (which is basically what the FSA is) start arguing with the Govt that put it there?

Oh, that's what they call "joined-up government". ;-(

oceanblue_3

cheerfulcat wrote:

The problem is that so many people just aren't interested - I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the glazed look which appears as soon as investment is mentioned to most people!

I know what you mean; nevertheless, I try to get people to talk about themselves and what they want. For example, I ask "If you had just inherited £1 million, what would you do?" Or, "If you had just one year left to live, what would you do differently?" (I've always known how to inject levity into any conversation). These questions seem to encourage people to equate quality of living with control of money (not amount of money), and access to a sufficient amount of money (different for everybody). If people feel in control of their resources, they tend to feel good about other areas of their lives.

cheerfulcat wrote:

I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the revenge tack on MSE; it's all wrong. It perpetuates the myth of "them" and "us".

I'm glad you agree; perhaps others have opinions on this subject?

cheerfulcat wrote:

Splendidly! Thank you for asking :-).

Good news! I've had an excellent twelve months; these are my stars:

1) Baring Korea
2) INVESCO Perpetual Latin America
3) Merrill Lynch UK Special Situations
4) JP Morgan Natural Resources
5) Artemis European Growth

Which stocks have floated your boat?

EdInvestor

I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the revenge tack on MSE; it's all wrong.

But there's growing evidence that hitting the industry in the pocket works - rate tarts and other Moneysaver types have done 700m quid's worth of damage to profits on credit cards and other banking products in the past year.

Times

Now the banks are focussing on better customer service to try and hang onto their customers

Isn't it about time?Surely no-one feels sorry for the banks?

Insurance companies (the worst of all) are also suffering: the Prudential is reduced to buying up old Equitable annuities, there's so little new business around. Why is this?Because people are fed up with being ripped off.

I speak as a shareholder in several of these financial institutions : IMHO they will make even more money if they help their customers do the same.

How unfortunate that they have to learn this basic business lesson the hard way.

EdInvestor

DH

How can a Govt department (which is basically what the FSA is) start arguing with the Govt that put it there?

Come on man, next you'll be asking how come Tony Blair fights with Gordon Brown.

cheerfulcat

Hi, oceanblue,

oceanblue wrote:

I know what you mean; nevertheless, I try to get people to talk about themselves and what they want. For example, I ask "If you had just inherited £1 million, what would you do?" Or, "If you had just one year left to live, what would you do differently?" (I've always known how to inject levity into any conversation). These questions seem to encourage people to equate quality of living with control of money (not amount of money), and access to a sufficient amount of money (different for everybody). If people feel in control of their resources, they tend to feel good about other areas of their lives.

An excellent approach, and one I hadn't thought of.

Good news! I've had an excellent twelve months; these are my stars:

1) Baring Korea
2) INVESCO Perpetual Latin America
3) Merrill Lynch UK Special Situations
4) JP Morgan Natural Resources
5) Artemis European Growth

Which stocks have floated your boat?

That's a nice collection :-) Well picked!

My best performing ( and only ) UTs have been ML Gold & General and New Star UK Select Opportunities; of the shares, two medium-sized oil E&P companies and one tiny oil company in North Korea ( happy to PM you with the names; I don't want mods breathing down my neck! ) have produced very nice results indeed.

Pal

Why would anyone want to know the names of shares that have already done very well?

Perhaps you would all like to confirm that you have actually sold out of the investments you are so busy ramping up? I would hate to find out that a group of professionals like yourself are willywaving about entirely notional profits based on highly questionable, short-term, past performance statistics produced by the marketing departments of investment management companies on stocks that you still own? Surely none of you are THAT daft, are you?

Obviously if that proved to be the case, I would have to put a stop to this discussion before you all start crowing about all or any of the following:

- house price gains as if it is good for the economy and actually improves the disposable wealth of anyone other than mortgage company shareholders;
- 1, 3 or 5 year performance statistics as a guide to the future performance of fund managers;
- Past dividend yield as a guide to future income from a specific company share;
- Technical investing methods as a viable alternative to fundamental research;
- The use of Index Linked Government stock as a means to outperform other investments, particularly fixed interest Gilts.

oceanblue_3

Pal wrote:

Why would anyone want to know the names of shares that have already done very well?

Perhaps you would all like to confirm that you have actually sold out of the investments you are so busy ramping up? I would hate to find out that a group of professionals like yourself are willywaving about entirely notional profits based on highly questionable, short-term, past performance statistics produced by the marketing departments of investment management companies on stocks that you still own? Surely none of you are THAT daft, are you?

Obviously if that proved to be the case, I would have to put a stop to this discussion before you all start crowing about all or any of the following:

- house price gains as if it is good for the economy and actually improves the disposable wealth of anyone other than mortgage company shareholders;
- 1, 3 or 5 year performance statistics as a guide to the future performance of fund managers;
- Past dividend yield as a guide to future income from a specific company share;
- Technical investing methods as a viable alternative to fundamental research;
- The use of Index Linked Government stock as a means to outperform other investments, particularly fixed interest Gilts.

Fair enough, Pal.

Perhaps it would be a useful exercise to explore the criteria we use for selecting investments. I know that since I sat SV1 and G20 investment selection and portfolio construction have become more straightforward.

Pal

Actually I was discussing the measurement of past investment performance within a private portfolio, but if you want to go off-topic that's fine by me.

oceanblue_3

Pal wrote:

Actually I was discussing the measurement of past investment performance within a private portfolio, but if you want to go off-topic that's fine by me.

The reason for my posting the information is that I had taken a point of view on those funds (and others) over twelve months ago. I thought they would be successful, and they have not let me down.

So, my point is this: do you think there's a way of managing investment risk through research?

cheerfulcat

Pal wrote:

Why would anyone want to know the names of shares that have already done very well?

Oceanblue asked me what shares had done well for me. The information would be of no use to anyone else except ob. I certainly would not suggest that shares which have done well recently are necessarily suitable for investing in *now* as they may well be more or less fully valued, for now.

Perhaps you would all like to confirm that you have actually sold out of the investments you are so busy ramping up? I would hate to find out that a group of professionals like yourself are willywaving about entirely notional profits based on highly questionable, short-term, past performance statistics produced by the marketing departments of investment management companies on stocks that you still own? Surely none of you are THAT daft, are you?

I don't know what is more offensive, the accusation of ramping or that of w****waving ( not a very nice expression for a family site btw and one which I personally find objectionable ). As it happens I have indeed partially sold out of two of the shares I mentioned, taking a profit. But most of my shares are bought for the long term. Nothing that either oceanblue or I have said has anything to do with "past performance statistics" and I'm beginning to think that you have the wrong attitude to investing. I invest in areas which I think will grow for a *very long time*. I don't like to trade, I want to buy and hold. I don't need instant profit, I need a home for my money.

Before you accuse me of only mentioning profitable shares, let me say that I have made my share of mistakes, involving drops in share price of up to 90%. I am as guilty as the next investor of being taken in by gaudy tat :-)

Oh, and I expect an apology for the ramping remark. That is a very serious accusation.