Left council house but still on rent agreement 11 years later??

Olly1_2

I shared a council rented house with a friend for 6 months and in July 1997 I moved out to stay with my now husband. I hand delivered a letter to the council at this time saying I had left the property and I heard nothing more from them regarding this. The remaining tennant got debt in my name a few years later and the companies traced me through my parents address but as I could prove I was not living at the property I was not liable (I could not pursue it further as apparently the fraud was against the companies and not against me). Last week I received an email from the remaining tenant saying they need me to write to the council to say I am no longer on the lease/rental agreement and that it can be signed over to them alone so they can get a transfer - due to past debt etc I was shocked I was still on a lease despite living in a different country for 11 years! Phoned council and they say I must give them my address so I can sign a deed of release for the lease and that if there were any debts etc on the property I am still liable (they wont tell me IF there are any arrears or debts etc). I have paid mortgage and council tax etc on own property for 11 years and heard nothing from council to say I was still on their lease (or any reply to hand delivered letter from 1997) nor had the current tennant forwarded any mail etc and I would assume the council must have written to us both at the old address (they used to write to both of us seperate when I was there).

Where do I stand on this? So far I have refused to give address and remaining tennant claims they wont say where I live or give contact info apart from email address I gave them, but I am very worried as remaining tenent knows my address, phone, mobile, info, business/work info etc (through friends/family in common). Could I be found liable for their bills, debts of rent, council tax, possibly elec, phone etc despite informing council when I left in 1997 - any advice appreciated.

simpywimpy

Unfortunately I would imagine you could still be held liable. As the letter was hand delivered, you wouldn't be able to prove you sent it and I wouldn't imagine a letter would have been enough to release you from the lease.

Olly1_2

In the letter (of which I still have copy) I told them I had moved out on that date and would no longer be a tenant on the rent agreement and that should they wish to contact me I had provided my forwarding details for them - surely they should have contacted me if they needed anything else done? I hand delivered letter with keys so they could not deny receipt and also to ensure safe delivery of keys. Other tenant moved someone else (illegally) into the flat 1 week after we took on the flat so I would end up paying bills for both of them (as I did when I was there) - very frustrating and surely in 11 years the council would have sent at least one letter which current tennant should have returned to them so they in wrong too i would assume (they were very keen in sending letters when I was there lol).

Note it was not a lease but a rent agreement we took out if it makes any difference. I can prove I have been paying bills, council tax and mortgage etc elsewhere so the fact of my not living there can be easily proven.

house184

in my opinion you are still a joint tenant, one person cannot end the joint tenancy by surrender, all must do it. What makes it harder is that as per Burton v Camden 2000 HL a deed of release has no effect either and so means that the tenant that remains will NOT become the sole tenant. I think the Council are wrong in thinking that it does.

Getting a joint secure tenancy into a sole secure tenancy (i'm presuming it's a secure as you were a Council tenant not a housing association tenant) is not easy. It's usually done through a transfer of property order but as you weren't a cohabitant (ie living together like a husband and wife but not married), don't have children together or married then I don't believe you can go down this route.


Pretty much your only option would be to give your notice to quit thus ending the tenancy for both of you but the other tenant probably wouldn't be to happy. I may well be wrong though so get some legal advice pronto!

I'm not sure if you can recover rent arrears more than 6 years old as they might be statute barred (don't really know just wondering). As to the other areas you might well be liable for them (again get legal advice!)

It's a shame you didn't get some proper advice before you moved out.

Olly1_2

I can understand where you are coming from but my annoyance is the fact that I did inform the council in writing at the time when I returned the keys and surely they had some kind of obligation to tell me that the letter was not enough and I had to compete this deed of release or complete a different form etc. The council had a contact address for me and my mail was being forwarded from old address to new one so surely they should have let me know - I did not think to get legal advice before writing to the council to end the rent share agreement as never thought for a moment the letter would not be enough, however had they contacted me saying it was more complicated or needed us both to sign forms etc then I would have contact CAB or someone to find out more, but in over 11 years they did not say returning keys with letter was not enough.

I was thousands in debt at one point and worked damn hard to clear it all and now be self-employed and there is no way I now want to be liable for someone else's bills especially for during a period of time I was working all hours to pay off my own debts and pay my own monthly bills. I am furious about this and my only saving grace at this time is they have no idea where I live or my married name etc (not saying they cant find me but its not as easy as sending a simple letter to me). I still feel ANY company should contact you to say a letter is not enough or what you need to do to end a contract - if every company could ignore letters and do nothing for 11 years or so we could all end up with huge bills from old internet, phone, council, mobile, bank charges etc

ADDED - forgot to say was a tiny 2 bedroom flat in tower block and the remaining tennant has partner (not sure if legally living there yet but would think so after 11 years) and children at the address so I would assume the council would be ok her staying as not like she is taking up a 2 bed flat with only her in it. Apparently she needs this in her name so she can get a transfer to a new house out of the tower block and from my knowledge you cant get a house transfer if you have arrears so hopefully there are no backlog of debts/rent etc. Also surely she broke the terms of the rent agreement when she moved her boyfriend in (without informing council) - this was one of the main reasons I left as he brought drunks and strangers home almost 24/7, wandered into my room with mates when he wanted (day or night) and generally caused lots of problems (he also stripped naked and tried to attack me in my room and only his gf coming back early and me screaming stopped him so I had a few reasons to want to leave the flat) - mainly feel I was forced out so for that to happen and someone at that flat running up debt already in my name (years after I moved out) means I doubly dont want to have anything to do with any of them nor do I want to pay their bills - gah what a mess, and a simple letter from the council in response to mine could have resolved all this. If ending tenancy for both of us is only way to remove me then so be it - dont want to do this but refuse to be attached to the place which now holds horrid memories for any longer.

Olly1_2

Also the guys he used to bring home - one used to pee on carpet when drunk and liked to walk around naked, and another climbed out of window and along outside window ledge to stare in my bedroom window whilst I was asleep!!! Was woken up by knocking at window which is a shock when 14 floors up in a tower block. She was unemployed and drunk all day at pub and I was working and doing voluntary work with kids also so very different types of people and although I dont mind a drink myself and like a laugh the same as the next person I was forced out of the flat as did not feel safe there. Did not inform council at time of her bf living there as we were in debt to council at the time and they were starting eviction proceedings so I did not want to do anything to give them more ammunition at that time (was a mix up with housing rent benefit and water rates causing arrears problem) - From 5k arrears we ended up owing about 1k and I paid my share of rent bills weekly to flatmate and then found out she had not been paying it to council (I was working so giving to her money to pay seemed best idea at the time - oh how we live and learn)!! All in all was a horrible time in my life and to find myself still attached in part to it is horrid and then to find out I may have to pay some of her bills if she has them and all because council did not reply to my letter - grrrrr!

CIS

You won't be liable for the council tax as long as you have proof of your main residence elsewhere - even though your named on the rent account , as long as you have your main residence elsewere then the responsibility to pay would fall on the remaining tenants.

Ian_Griffiths_Halifax

Did you get and keep a receipt for the keys. You kept the copy of your letter.

Olly1_2

Did not get any receipt or acknowledgement from them so assumed it was the end of the matter. Put envelope and keys on desk informed receptionist what they were and she said she would pass them to the relevant dept. Had I heard back from them I would have signed other stuff etc that they needed at that time. Do have copies of all correspondence with them prior to this letter and also copy of this letter. I realise now I should have signed more forms but if council never told me this or contacted me regarding this, nor did tennant say I was still on tenancy I had no idea that everything was not done and dusted

tbs624

Olly - it's generally up to adults who are signed into any contract to personally take responsibility and properly safeguard their own legal position.

*You* could have talked to someone rather than just returning the keys with a letter and sought your own confirmation of events: the Council are not your minders as well as your former LL.

It's like people who are in mortgage arrears dropping their keys in to to the lender and thinking it's all over and dealt with..

You definitely need qualified legal advice for this one. Go via the community legal service: http://www.clsdirect.org.uk/

Olly1_2

Yes but if they drop their keys off at lender along with letter giving forwarding address and explaining situation surely then ball is in lenders court to contact the person saying if there is more they have to do? The problem I have with this is they never once contacted me to say 'umm you have not completed form x, or deed of release' or whatever else was needed. Seriously, if you wrote to British Gas saying you were now with another company and heard nothing back from them would you not be shocked to find out 11 years later you were still with BG? I understand I could hvae contact them again etc but really felt no need to do so - they had the keys, they had my letter, they had my new address, my mail was being forwarded - they did nothing about this and I would have assumed they should have had I not completed something that was needed.