lynnellens blind journey

lynnellen

hi everyone.
I wish i had known about this site 365 sleepless nights ago,im sure with all the advise it offers it could of spared us the journey my OH and i are setting off on [A SCAREY ONE] its quite a long story so in a nutshell we had our own business building/consruction toottling quiet nicely lots of employees then things went right down ie new staff did bad job costa fortune to put right customers not paying,it had such a disastrous knock-on affect resulting in debt ,then ccjs baliff threats sleepless nights, nail biting but then the fairy godmother came to take all our worries away [for a £1175.00 FEE] it was an IVA, 5 years @ £500 p.m it turned out at 1 year @ £750p.m 6 years minimum
of £600. we are now 16 months into it and we have paid on time but at a cost we are now incuring new debts just to pay the iva one new debt is wih the VAT man and he wants his money, we have"t got it so we are being made bancrupt . I feel we were misold our iva as we live in rented accommodation and got no assets and it would probably have been best to go BR initially .
I have been browsing this forum for a couple of days as i feel quite alone in it all, dont want to be miss doom and gloom to all m family and friends so i have confided in few, its great that there are other people in the same boat as me [I would prefer to be on dry land spain preferably] and i have a few questions 1 does the OR come To your house ? can the take your cars ? any advise or support welcomed,

RAS

Hi lynnellen

You will get more help if you post on the Bk sub board, at the top of this board, but here is a bit of info as a lot of folk will be having their tea.

1 does the OR come To your house ? No. Your household goods will be safe, unless you have any antiques, old masters or very large or very expensive bits of kit around.

if you have the option, it may be better to go BR yourselves rather than allowing yourselves to be made BK. Is it the revenue who are threatening to make you BK?

can the take your cars ?

it all depends. if you need cars for work, you may be allowed to keep them. If they are worth something, then he may insist that they are sold and give you money for a run around. The exact situation depends; people who do not need cars have had vehicles worth a little over £500 taken but others have been aloowed to keep vehicles worth nearer £2,500.

lynnellen

yes the inland rev are going to enforce it

RAS

OK

I have asked rog2 to look in on you - he was made BK by HMRC. Just in case he is not around, can you post up on here http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/forumdisplay.html?f=136

I know that rog would recommend that if you can, it might be easier on you to take the bull by the horns and go BK yourselves as soon as possible. Please chat to one of the debt advisors on fermi's excellent thread on resources http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1056083

NDL are available by phone until about 8pm.

And ask all the questions you need to; the lovely crew on the BK board are all well used to multiple pleas for advice on how to flll in each bit of the forms.

lynnellen

thanks for that i did'nt realise there was any difference between going BR yourself or having it enforced,im learning already,you never no in a couple of years i could get a job in debt counselling ha.

rog2

lynnellen wrote: »

thanks for that i did'nt realise there was any difference between going BR yourself or having it enforced,im learning already,you never no in a couple of years i could get a job in debt counselling ha.

Hi lynellen - sorry I wasn't around last night, but I see that RAS has been giving you some excellent advice.
I was, indeed, declared bankrupt by HMRC, in 2006.
Unfortunately, in my less than unbiased opinion, HMRC are by far the largest petitioner of 'debtor petitioned' bankruptcies in the UK. They are extremely inflexible when trying to work out possible solutions and tend to press the 'bankruptcy' button on their computers as an alternative to F1 (help) as it is, for them, an easy way to 'clean up cases which, otherwise, would require human intervention, as it allows them to 'close the case'.
Now that I've got my 'personal rant' over with, let's see if I can answer some of your questions:
HMRC bankruptcies are only dealt with in the High Courts, so that would mean a trip to London or Edinburgh. They will NOT agree to having the case transferred to your local court.
On the positive side, if there is a positive side, HMRC generally go through the process of obtaining a CCJ, before serving their 'debtors' with a Statutory Demand, so it can give a bit more time to 'deal' with things - this may include a 'self-petitioned' bankruptcy, which, again in my opinion, could be the 'better option' as you would be more in the 'driving seat'.
With a 'Creditor Petitined' Bankruptcy, the bankrupt is almost certain to have to attend an OR interview in person, whereas a 'debtor petitioned' bankrupt, providing that there is no suggestion of fraud or impropriety, is more likely to have a telephone interview.
Also, in the case of a 'creditor petitioned' bankrupt the main creditor (HMRC) will usually be asked, by the OR, to appoint a trustee if there are any assetts, or potential assetts. Whilst the trustee will, undoubtedly, perform his duties within the law, I can not help but feel that a trustee appointed by HMRC is bound to 'lean' more towards the creditor (however, that is only my own opinion).
In your case, a potential obstacle to a debtor (self) petioned bankruptcy could be the fact that you have been duped into an IVA. It looks, from your post, that you are with one of the dreaded 'IVA' factories - who 'promise to get rid of up to 90+% of all your debt within five years, using a little known piece of Government Legislation' when, in actual fact, all they are interested in is the high level of 'fees' that they can 'cream' off of your misfortune. In fact, you should not have had to pay them any upfront fees, as they should take their fees out of your monthly payments, before paying your creditors - but that's a different story. The problem lies in that these companies don't like to see their clients petitioning for bankruptcy and can try to make things difficult for them.

You really must talk to one of the Debt Counselling Charities, such as:
National Debtline - 0808 808 4000 www.nationaldebtline.co.uk
CCCS - 0800 138 1111 www.cccs.co.uk
or your local CAB
If your debt, as it appears to be, is business related, you may prefer to talk with 'Business Debtlin' (Part of MAT) on 0800 197 6026 www.bdl.org.uk

Whilst I can not predict what any of the debt charities will advise you, I would guess that their advice would include ditching the IVA company and petitioning for your own bankruptcy. It would, most certainly, be my advice - the court fees would be aid for by just one missed monthly payment.

And, as RAS also suggests, start a thread on the Bankruptcy and Living with it' sub board of this forum, where you will get lots of helpful advice.

Good luck

RAS

Hi lynn

How goes?

lynnellen

sorry for the delay in replying, thanks rog2 for your very imformative knowledge we have stopped our iva payments so i guess we are on our way to BR, we have been given a couple of months to find the money but we wont be able to oblige, and we have informed our accountant that we are going BR and he is going to deal with the iva supervisor for us, like u say they wont like it. the fee we paid in the first place was to a debt company then a few weeks later they passed us on to a iva supervisor, we realise now it was a bg mistake but we were very vunerable at the time and my OH and i were very stressed out,although we owed quite a lot in he iva i think our debt has now doubled mainly because of how the consruction industry system works, its ironic really as last year the tax office acutally owed us £18.000 {they kept hold of it for possible future depts}and upto april this year its now £72.000, i cant understand why they cant just take it out of that.
if we declare ourselves bankcrupt will we still be dealt with in the high court ? its really scared me, im a bag of neves as it is, also do you know if its true that if you sell something like a car before and knowing your going BR if it will be taken off thhe person you sell it to,im sure there will be lots more questions arising so do forgive me,thanks.

rog2

lynnellen wrote: »

if we declare ourselves bankcrupt will we still be dealt with in the high court ?
also do you know if its true that if you sell something like a car before and knowing your going BR if it will be taken off thhe person you sell it to,im sure there will be lots more questions arising so do forgive me,thanks.

Hi lynellen - First of all - if you decode to petition for your OWN bankruptcy, then you can do this, providing they are set up for bankruptcy, at your local County Court. If you wait for HMRC then it will be at the High Court, because THEY don't use any other.

As far as selling your car before bankruptcy - this is a tricky one - if the Official Receiver fels that this was done to make money, which you later can not account for, or if you 'undersold' the car, then, yes - the OR does have the power to 'reverse' any such sale, but this is rarely used - especially where someone sells a car in order to raise the money needed for the court fees.

Now, may I suggest that you start up a thread on the bankruptcy board, as some of the people in there don't spend that much time on this (DFW) board, and they could mis your questions - you could, equally, miss some of the answers.

lynnellen

sorry for the delayed reply ,[and possible duplicate, im not very computer lierate] thankyou for your advise rog2 although you have scared me to death on the high court.
We cancelled our iva payments, our accountant is going to deal with them as he is the tax and vat office, they have given us a couple of months to pay but we wont be able to, its ironic really, last april the tax office kept back a repayment to us of £18.000 incase we owed them any off our next years tax bill,in addition to that they are now in possession of a further £58.000 ,thats the argument we have with them,there is enough to pay all our tax/vat with a lot left over to go in the iva , the systems mad.
im going to take your advise and post on the bancruptcy and living with it site as well, can u answer a couple of questions, 1, if you sell something before going, and knowing your going BR like a car, can they repossess it ?and 2 how much does it cost to apply BR.

rog2

lynnellen wrote: »

sorry for the delayed reply ,[and possible duplicate, im not very computer lierate]

Have already answered your questions - see previous post.

Good luck.