UK economy comes to a standstill

Chris2685

I know what you mean. It depends if you are comfortable driving an old car with a small engine, or if you only feel comfortable driving the latest sports car with a 5 litre engine...

Generali

Chris2685 wrote: »

I know what you mean. It depends if you are comfortable driving an old car with a small engine, or if you only feel comfortable driving the latest sports car with a 5 litre engine...

It's not so much that - I'm happy driving anything really as long as it's reliable. I just want:

- A reasonable sized house in an area where the family can be safe.
- A short commute
- To work a maximum of 50 hours/week.
- To be able to afford good fresh ingredients to prepare meals with
- To be able to go cycling relatively easily
- A decent education for the kids
- To be able to enjoy myself with the family on the weekend (eg go to the beach/play sports/have picnics)
- To have a nice holiday once a year
- To be able to afford a hobby

I reckon that's the sort of standard of living most adults should aspire to. In the South East of England with 2 kids you're looking at an awful lot of money.

ginvzt

Well, why not move to NZ? I think that is fantastic place (been there for holiday!) and no deadly snakes!!!!!

Well, that is my country of choice, but not yet!

Generali

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Sydney is dearer to live in than London according to my Aussie friend's daughter, who lives in Sydney and lived in London for a while. My friend lives on the outskirts of Sydney. The Brit expat list seems to confirm how expensive Oz has become
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=540344&page=103

We have been going into the cost of living in Sydney as my son has a chance to work there. He hasn't traveled that part of the world yet:D

I reckon we can live on AU$1k/week having done the sums. A mate that I worked with a couple of years back (who I am now pretty senior to) nets $1600/wk.

I bet Aus is being hit pretty badly with the oil price rising. House prices got pretty out of hand there too.

Generali

ginvzt wrote: »

Well, why not move to NZ? I think that is fantastic place (been there for holiday!) and no deadly snakes!!!!!

Well, that is my country of choice, but not yet!

1. Easier for me to get into Aus as MRs Generali is Australian
2. I'd get bored in NZ I reckon. I have a very good Kiwi mate and he struggles after having lived in London for a few years. I think it'd be too parochial.

RichOneday_2

This population thing has been brewing for a long time.

We assume in the western world that we will always have long term economic growth barring the odd blip for the odd recession.

But economic growth has always come on the back of population growth. Without population growth I think we may well see things unravel quite dramatically as the old live longer and become an ever increasing percentage of the population.

So we probably can't manage without population growth to fund all the non-economic bods.

But can we manage WITH population growth? How much more? The UK population has increased FOURFOLD in about 120 years. I wouldn't like to be around in 120 years from now if there's 250 million in the UK. Can you imagine 4 times as many people in your area?

OK, so that's very long term and politicians don't have plans for the very long term.

If you think through the scenarios a) Population growth and b) No population growth, we seem doomed either way not to put too finer point on it.

An annual cull of old people seems to be the answer which is used in may situations to control wildlife populations.

Not sure if the policy is a vote winner though!:huh:

Microstar_2

Generali wrote: »

In Aus the taxes are lower, there is almost no national debt and the population is younger. The standard of school education is higher (IMO) and they haven't gone down the twin dead ends of political correctness and health and safety being run by people that can't measure risk.

I take it you haven't lived there for any length of time then?
Schooling is definitely not better, standards are frequently weak and parents are expected to pay a fee for the better state schools (which can be quite high). Universities are very focussed on getting overseas students (much more so that UK unis) and so seem to discriminate against their own 'home' students. They have problems with violent youth, just like we do, esp with some of the immigrant communities, drugs and gangs etc. Plenty of PC (witness the recent discussion of Gordon Ramsay's swearing in the Aussie parliament!).
In the end I got a strange kind of 'claustrophobia' with the country. Got sick of hearing about sport, sport, sport all the time and endless bores at bbq's telling you how great Aus (with mouth open while chewing). You'd be surprised how many ex-pat British either come back, or want to come back but can't afford it due to house prices and getting back into a job here. NZ is nice, but too remote.
If you have a decent salary then UK is a pretty good place to live. Especially with relatively cheap air fares and (usually) fairly generous leave entitlement, you're better off than the average Aussie..
It ain't so bad here, certainly not as bad as the 'Daily Wail' would have you believe.
Still, grass is always greener, always has been and always will be. But don't burn any bridges.
Not too bad on the spiders and snakes, but the snakes do come into populated areas when weather is dry (for water). Mate of mine got bit by one whilst walking in Brisbane - had to be rushed to hospital but was OK after a day or two.
You can pay a chap to spray the house and garden against termites and so on and check for spiders. Beware of using toilets in outbuildings etc. My sister went into a shower cubicle in a motel somewhere up north, shut the shower door and found herself sharing it with a large spider - that put her off the country for life!

Generali

RichOneday wrote: »

This population thing has been brewing for a long time.

We assume in the western world that we will always have long term economic growth barring the odd blip for the odd recession.

But economic growth has always come on the back of population growth. Without population growth I think we may well see things unravel quite dramatically as the old live longer and become an ever increasing percentage of the population.

So we probably can't manage without population growth to fund all the non-economic bods.

But can we manage WITH population growth? How much more? The UK population has increased FOURFOLD in about 120 years. I wouldn't like to be around in 120 years from now if there's 250 million in the UK. Can you imagine 4 times as many people in your area?

OK, so that's very long term and politicians don't have plans for the very long term.

If you think through the scenarios a) Population growth and b) No population growth, we seem doomed either way not to put too finer point on it.

An annual cull of old people seems to be the answer which is used in may situations to control wildlife populations.

Not sure if the policy is a vote winner though!:huh:

You don't need population growth to fuel economic growth, all you need is for productivity to run ahead of the decline in population. The trouble in the UK (and much of the industrialised world) is that in the C20th successive governments made a series of very expensive promises to people that they never put aside the money to pay for. We're coming pretty close to the time when the bills have to be paid, that's going to really mess things up IMO.

To put it a little simplistically, each working couple will be having to pay enough tax to support one pensionner on top of paying as well as paying for all the other bills that the state runs up in our name. If you want your pensionner to be able to sit sipping lapsang souchon (sp?) whilst nibblling on a nice piece of madeira cake or to be drinking Asda value tea and eating out of date rich teas is immaterial - either way the people in their 30s and 40s are going to be footing the bill.

carolt

Generali wrote: »

It's not so much that - I'm happy driving anything really as long as it's reliable. I just want:

- A reasonable sized house in an area where the family can be safe.
- A short commute
- To work a maximum of 50 hours/week.
- To be able to afford good fresh ingredients to prepare meals with
- To be able to go cycling relatively easily
- A decent education for the kids
- To be able to enjoy myself with the family on the weekend (eg go to the beach/play sports/have picnics)
- To have a nice holiday once a year
- To be able to afford a hobby

I reckon that's the sort of standard of living most adults should aspire to. In the South East of England with 2 kids you're looking at an awful lot of money.

Sounds like a reasonable enough wish-list! Sad that even someone relatively high up the income scale such as yourself sees that as unattainable in the UK; although - this being the housing forum and all - I'll repeat my long-standing mantra that it really is all down to high house prices, and I really do believe that as they fall back down to earth, being able to afford a 'normal' lifestyle will become standard, rather than an insurmountable dream. I suppose that if I didn't totally believe that, I would have followed you (well, preceded you) and emigrated long ago.

Not with you on the school fees - I'd never send my kids to private schools ever (even if I could afford it, which I can't) and think they'll be better off for it. So I dare say that saves me a lot of money relative to you.

But personally, funnily enough, I love this old country - the culture, humour and sense of belonging would keep me coming right back. Plus, seriously, do you really want to be so far away from family? I'd hate that - and it adds extra cost travelling to see them.

Shame - from our point of view - if you do go - we need all the calm rational voices we can get on here..... (specially with me around ).

Generali

carolt wrote: »

Sounds like a reasonable enough wish-list! Sad that even someone relatively high up the income scale such as yourself sees that as unattainable in the UK; although - this being the housing forum and all - I'll repeat my long-standing mantra that it really is all down to high house prices, and I really do believe that as they fall back down to earth, being able to afford a 'normal' lifestyle will become standard, rather than an insurmountable dream. I suppose that if I didn't totally believe that, I would have followed you (well, preceded you) and emigrated long ago.

Not with you on the school fees - I'd never send my kids to private schools ever (even if I could afford it, which I can't) and think they'll be better off for it. So I dare say that saves me a lot of money relative to you.

But personally, funnily enough, I love this old country - the culture, humour and sense of belonging would keep me coming right back. Plus, seriously, do you really want to be so far away from family? I'd hate that - and it adds extra cost travelling to see them.

Shame - from our point of view - if you do go - we need all the calm rational voices we can get on here..... (specially with me around ).

It should be a standard of living that is atainable by anyone who earns much above the average salary in the UK and just isn't unless you bought a house a long time ago.

I agree that a lot of the problem is down to high house prices although part of the problem for me is the stupid relationship Brits have with food (IMO of course) and this crazy idea that we should work all the time!