unregistered land?

nixinix

I am hoping that someone can help.

The property I am due to exchange on (repossession) nxt week has a decent size garden but a large part of it is 'unregistered'. I know I am buying the property as is shown on land registry but the garden is very established and the boundaries are very clear and nobody else caan currently access the land. We will carry on using the garden as is, including the unregistered land.

I am not really sure how or why it is unregistered as it has been in use as the garden for many years judging by how established it is, as the vendors are the morgagees I cannot find anything out about the history.

I was wondering if there is a way of registering this unregistered land? If so what is the process?

Thank you
Nixinix

terryw

nixinix wrote: »

I am hoping that someone can help.

The property I am due to exchange on (repossession) nxt week has a decent size garden but a large part of it is 'unregistered'. I know I am buying the property as is shown on land registry but the garden is very established and the boundaries are very clear and nobody else can currently access the land. We will carry on using the garden as is, including the unregistered land.

I am not really sure how or why it is unregistered as it has been in use as the garden for many years judging by how established it is, as the vendors are the morgagees I cannot find anything out about the history.

I was wondering if there is a way of registering this unregistered land? If so what is the process?

Thank you
Nixinix

I stress that I am not a lawyer but over the years I have always done my own transfers of property bought and sold. I bought three separate properties which were unregistered and had no problem registering them with the Land Registry but I did have the paperwork showing the ownership for the last "n" years. I presume that you will receive such paperwork and so if this is the case I can't see any real problems. If there is no paperwork then it is just possible that there could be problems.

For the process and the form numbers just ring the LR, or go to a large public library where there will be books on DIY conveyancing. An old book "the Conveyancing Fraud" by Michael Joseph is a rattlin' good read, and although dated will be a great help. It is worth reading just for the wit and humour regardless of the great help that it is likely to be. My central library still has this in its reference section. Really though any such book will give the procedure.

By the way, the LR are the most helpful government organisation that I have ever encountered, and a visit there will assist you greatly. Their remit is for all land to be registered so they are really on your side in achieving your aim.

On the absolute downside, even if for some daft reason you were unable to register it, this is unlikely to be a big deal as after the passage of years it becomes less probable that someone will come out of the mists to claim such land.

If you go ahead, please let me know how you get on either by PM or in this thread.

bw

terryw

nixinix

thank you terryw for your swift reponse. It is good to know that LR are helpful and that you have been through similar situations with success. My solicitor is being very cagey - simply saying 'you are buying what is on LR now', this is partly because it is a repo and we don'thave time to sort it. Not sure what paperwork I will get because it is a repo so I suppose I'll have to wait and see for that one.

I'll let you know how we get on, would you start this process before you brought or wait till we are in the property?

terryw

nixinix wrote: »

thank you terryw for your swift reponse. It is good to know that LR are helpful and that you have been through similar situations with success. My solicitor is being very cagey - simply saying 'you are buying what is on LR now', this is partly because it is a repo and we don'thave time to sort it. Not sure what paperwork I will get because it is a repo so I suppose I'll have to wait and see for that one.

I'll let you know how we get on, would you start this process before you brought or wait till we are in the property?

The solicitor is protecting his own back quite naturally. One of the quotes from the Michael Joseph book mentioned is along the lines of "In the conveyancing process everything that the solicitors do is to protect themselves not the people involved".
A little cynical perhaps, but with an element of truth. The other books to check out are the Which guide and a one by a chap called Joe Bradshaw.

The sellers should send copies of the paperwork relating to the unregistered land with the contract but if they have no paperwork then they can't send this. Really you can't do much until the property is yours, other than reading up on the subject.

There are stock forms for registering unregistered land and usually they are obtained from law stationers who are a rare breed. But the main printers of such documents are Oyez........bung this into google and there will be an on-line catalogue where you can check this. As I said, a visit to the Land Registry would be a useful journey as they will tell you the form numbers required nowadays.

terryw

Incisor

nixinix wrote: »

thank you terryw for your swift reponse. It is good to know that LR are helpful and that you have been through similar situations with success. My solicitor is being very cagey - simply saying 'you are buying what is on LR now', this is partly because it is a repo and we don'thave time to sort it. Not sure what paperwork I will get because it is a repo so I suppose I'll have to wait and see for that one.

I'll let you know how we get on, would you start this process before you brought or wait till we are in the property?

AIUI, the rule is that you have to show occupation for 12 years. The risk you take is that you may not ultimately get title, and by doing something about it you risk stirring sleeping dogs during the 12 years, but you do tend to increase certainty. From your description, I am guessing that one of the neighbours might be something like the railway [not fishing for confirmation!]. If that is the case, then do look at the implications for them of your occupation of the land.If there is a side access track which the land cuts, and they have not yet realised, you could expect a fairly determined recovery effort.

marcus45

go to www1.landregistry.gov.uk it tell you al youneed to know you can also telephone them they are very good ..good luck

nixinix

Thanks both. Incisor - one of neighbours is not a railway - I have neighbours on all sides but the fencing and gardens are very well established - I know the part of the garden we are talking about used to belong to anther house's garden pre these houses being built but has been split witht the original house and two other houses (one of which being the one I am in the process of purchasing).

I was expecting the land in our garden to have been retained by the developer in the hope of future building plots if they could purchase other garden land but my solicitors search has found that it is unregistered land. The developer who built the houses has since gone bust so would this explain this?

The house we are buying is 18 years old but I could not prove how long the garden has been with the house as the land registry for the property shows the land belonging to the house with the old original gardens.

Hope that makes sense.

nixinix

Incisor

nixinix wrote: »

... I was expecting the land in our garden to have been retained by the developer in the hope of future building plots if they could purchase other garden land but my solicitors search has found that it is unregistered land. The developer who built the houses has since gone bust so would this explain this?

Thanks for that. In your situation, I would be trying to think through the sequence of events in terms of conveyancing and to imagine how this got lost. It looks to me that as you say, the developer did have title to it, possibly at a time when registration was not strictly required? And then sold off the completed houses, but the deeds to this land may have gone with the last house to be sold? Or got lost in the liquidation. You are taking a sort of gamble, but as long as there is no obvious claimant, you will probably keep the land.

teabelly

Have neighbours lived there long enough to have seen the land you mention in use by the previous owner for more than 12 years? If so then the neighbours could make a statutory declaration which would help the process. You'd probably then be granted possessory title and have to wait another 12 years to gain absolute title. I had a similar issue when I bought my first house as the owner had pinched some land off the council and walled it in. He had 12 years continuous use so with statutory declarations to show he had done that 12 years previously I could register it with possessory title. They have tightened up on this procedure in the last few years so it may not be as straight forward as it once was.

Incisor

teabelly wrote: »

Have neighbours lived there long enough to have seen the land you mention in use by the previous owner for more than 12 years? If so then the neighbours could make a statutory declaration which would help the process. You'd probably then be granted possessory title and have to wait another 12 years to gain absolute title. ...

I think I would worry about stirring up something by going down that route. Great if it worked.

nixinix

Thanks everyone. I think I will wait until we are in the property to make discreet enquiries with the neighbours and try and find out more.