Chiropractor near Belfast?

star1_2

blimey .... yes .... everyone has an opinion, and [we] have the right to respect one another’s opinion .... agreement perhaps !!??

Regarding funding, I respect your view / right to disagree with me - but it's a fact that the pharma industry in the US alone its estimated worth was $280+bn last year (in 2004 it was $200bn here's a link if anyone wants to check http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244), conversely I've found out that in the US it's estimated by the FDA that no more than $1.25bn was spent collectively on alternative medicines/therapies. I've been unable to get any figures for the UK or European markets, one person I spoke to at a huge pharma co (my sister inlaw !), did suggest that in countries like India (which is regarded by drugs companies as the next/current significant growth market), the spend on promoting their products [pharma co's collectivley] and "pushing" them for approval is huge....

Regarding your link - thanks for that, I didn’t comment on it - because you'll see from my notes that I’m not saying that alternative medicine is a miracle cure ! - so a non-issue perhaps, and goes to explain the lack of comment?

:cool:

spaceraiders

star1 wrote: »

blimey .... yes .... everyone has an opinion, and [we] have the right to respect one another’s opinion .... agreement perhaps !!??

OK, I agree everyone has an opinion and people can respect others opinions. I don't see how this helps our discussion.

Regarding funding, I respect your view / right to disagree with me - but it's a fact that the pharma industry in the US alone its estimated worth was $280+bn last year (in 2004 it was $200bn here's a link if anyone wants to check http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244), conversely I've found out that in the US it's estimated by the FDA that no more than $1.25bn was spent collectively on alternative medicines/therapies.

You're debating against something I haven't said. Yes, there's lots of money in the pharma industry. Yes, there's less money in alternative medicine. There's probably not that much money in the niche products like eye drops either, yet the research is done and paid for by someone. You cannot use this as some kind of excuse why alternative medicine should not be held to the same standards as real medicine. Why should alternative medicine somehow be treated differently to other medicine? What's so special about it? Because they aren't quite as rich as other people?

Do you not realise that e.g. homeopaths would rake in the money if they proved their flu treatment worked? Governments would be delighted to use water tablets instead of expensive vaccinations.

I've been unable to get any figures for the UK or European markets, one person I spoke to at a huge pharma co (my sister inlaw !), did suggest that in countries like India (which is regarded by drugs companies as the next/current significant growth market), the spend on promoting their products [pharma co's collectivley] and "pushing" them for approval is huge....

Regarding your link - thanks for that, I didn’t comment on it - because you'll see from my notes that I’m not saying that alternative medicine is a miracle cure ! - so a non-issue perhaps, and goes to explain the lack of comment?

:cool:

The reason I posted that link is that you said no studies are done in alternative medicine because there is no money in it; both those points are false. There are thousands of studies out about most alternative medicines and the studies show that the vast majority do not work for what they claim to treat.

Girlzmum

spaceraiders wrote: »

You can be as melodramatic as you want, but your evidence is utterly unreliable. Would you take a vaccination shot that was tried on just one person or just because a group of people tried it and said it seemed to work?

I'm not being melodramatic Spaceraider - I am simply telling my experience of going to a chiropractor. You are the one who is shouting everyone down, telling us that we don't know what is going on in our own bodies, telling us that our minds are fooling us and claiming to know more about what has happened to my body than I myself do.
How can research happen without people giving their opinion, every new product has been tested by someone, each time they have been asked about its effectiveness. By following your logic if anyone says it works then we should tell them its all in their head and they're talking nonsense because it hasn't been proven yet - even if every other person in the trial agrees.

spaceraiders

Girlzmum wrote: »

I'm not being melodramatic Spaceraider - I am simply telling my experience of going to a chiropractor. You are the one who is shouting everyone down, telling us that we don't know what is going on in our own bodies, telling us that our minds are fooling us and claiming to know more about what has happened to my body than I myself do.
How can research happen without people giving their opinion, every new product has been tested by someone, each time they have been asked about its effectiveness. By following your logic if anyone says it works then we should tell them its all in their head and they're talking nonsense because it hasn't been proven yet - even if every other person in the trial agrees.

I give up. You're clearly not even attempting to read what I spent time writing and what I'm saying is backed up by vast amounts of evidence (it's not just my opinion). All I'm saying in a nutshell is that you cannot consider your case in isolation to know if chiro works. You need to set up an experiment with lots of people and monitor how they all respond. Read my links if you really have an open mind and would like to learn new things based on evidence.

Girlzmum

Trust me, I do understand evidence based practice - I actually work in the medical profession. Whatever you may decide I'm writing, I consider other peoples opinions and respect their ability to interpret their own experiences. I don't come along and tell them that it is all in their head because I have a link to prove they're wrong. So please don't patronise me by telling me my mind isn't really open - open your own mind and understand that peoples experiences and opinions may vary from your own. Believe it or not I do respect that people say going to a chiropractor does not work - I'm sure it doesn't work for everyone, if it did then it really would be a miracle cure and I'm afraid that doesn't exist, however I also understand that it works for some people, myself included.

star1_2

Spacerider - I’m not going to bother replying to every comment you make - its getting rather tedious .... suffice to say, my "real" knowledge of the aspect this subject is likely to far greater than your reliance of selected "facts" in an analytical manor (which does have its place), much of what you're saying is common knowledge and true, but other information is either blindly regurgitated, with no regard to what many "real life" opinions/experiences of those people are reporting on this thread.

Extensive "inside" experience around the funding/practices of both areas and that of others inside the respective industries backups up my experiences 100%, you also persistently seam to look over the fact that I've stated that I believe “convential medicine is key in treatment plans, but for some alternative has its place”.

Generally - you've "so missed the point of this thread", and you're intent on trying to pick arguments, where reasoned discussion should be taking place - (taking into account facts, knowledge and real-life experiences) - just look at the way you've responded to myself and Girlzmum !

Anyway, I’m sure you'll respond with a paraphrased posting in the same vain as your earlier ones - which I don't think I bother replying to !

Real experiences and a less confrontational approach perhaps?

spaceraiders

Trust me, I do understand evidence based practice - I actually work in the medical profession. Whatever you may decide I'm writing, I consider other peoples opinions and respect their ability to interpret their own experiences.

You seem completely unable to acknowledge that personal experiences are unreliable. Medical trials do involve asking people about their subjective experiences (did I ever say they didn't?), but many variables must be controlled for this reporting to be useful. You've given me no indication you have any knowledge about this. It is an undisputable fact that personal experiences are unreliable; feel free to refute any of the links (that you've just ignored again) I backed this statement up with.

Everyone loves going on about how we should all respect peoples opinions, but when you're talking about medical treatment, some things just flat out don't work. I wish you would respond to the actual content of my posts.

Girlzmum wrote: »

I don't come along and tell them that it is all in their head because I have a link to prove they're wrong.

I never said that either. I just said that you cannot be 100% sure chiro worked for many reasons (you may be right but we'll never know) and that you should only be recommending chiro to other people based on the results of medical experiments as that evidence trumps all anecdotal accounts. There are people out there that still think bloodletting works. Should we treat their opinion with respect and encourage bloodletting despite us knowing it doesn't work and is harmful?

spaceraiders

star1 wrote: »

Spacerider - I’m not going to bother replying to every comment you make - its getting rather tedious .... suffice to say, my "real" knowledge of the aspect this subject is likely to far greater than your reliance of selected "facts" in an analytical manor (which does have its place),

I've no idea what this means. If you know so much more about something that I'm disagreeing with, I'd love to be educated. I like learning new things. And what's wrong with "facts" and links that back up what I'm saying? Otherwise it's just a bunch of people's opinions with no hard data to back anything up. How do you propose we resolve our disagreement? By going by who has the most impressive CV? A vote?

much of what you're saying is common knowledge and true, but other information is either blindly regurgitated, with no regard to what many "real life" opinions/experiences of those people are reporting on this thread.

Extensive "inside" experience around the funding/practices of both areas and that of others inside the respective industries backups up my experiences 100%, you also persistently seam to look over the fact that I've stated that I believe “convential medicine is key in treatment plans, but for some alternative has its place”.

Generally - you've "so missed the point of this thread", and you're intent on trying to pick arguments, where reasoned discussion should be taking place - (taking into account facts, knowledge and real-life experiences) - just look at the way you've responded to myself and Girlzmum !

Anyway, I’m sure you'll respond with a paraphrased posting in the same vain as your earlier ones - which I don't think I bother replying to !

Real experiences and a less confrontational approach perhaps?

I really don't know what argument it is you've backed up. You still haven't told me what corruption and some people having more money than who have to do with anything. It would help greatly if you could summarise what you think our disagreement is with, say, two concise sentences.

My main points are 1) controlled experiments trump anecdotes as anecdotes area very unreliable 2) experiments have been done on alternative therapies and virtually all come back negative 3) let's use medical treatments by weighing up the pros and cons of each treatment 4) alternative medicine shouldn't be given a free ride and should be held to the same standards as conventional medicine. What don't you agree with?

I also don't understand what you mean by "paraphrasing"; I'm just quoting and replying to points I don't agree with. Some people just don't like others disagreeing with them I guess.

Girlzmum

I have made my point several times - you are chosing to ignore it. I haven't responded to your links because I don't feel the need to, I am sure that if I wanted proof that the sky is green I could find it with a quick google search on the internet. However, that does not change my point of view.

isme_2

I have seen chiropracters in the past for a knee issue that the doctor insisted by only treating through very strong painkillers and as a teenager this was not the best course of action. I saw the chiro and it was far better almost immediately.

I have arthritis and chiro treatment may not "cure" the issue, but it certainly has helped relieve the pain for a while and imho is certainly better than the steroid injections which were the only other option available to me.

TBH I dont think that it really matters whether it is proven or unproven medically and in some instances i have been willing to do whatever it takes to relieve pain. This I know has helped me in the past and therefore i will use the service again in the future.
There are many things that have not been proven scientifically that have helped people with all types of complaints. I say live and let live and do what you can to stop living in pain or relying on the painkillers which have long term side effects..