tell my LL to keep Deposit as last rent payment?

tbs624

bandraoi- sorry to lump 2 of your posts together - just easier to respond that way.

bandraoi wrote: »

Writing your landlord a formal letter and sending your notice by registered post are quite agressive ways of opening the dialogue. ..

The suggestion, by Olly and others, was to use recorded delivery - absolutely not an aggressive act & entirely appropriate when dated communications are involved (such as giving your notice): it is merely a way of tracking receipt of mail. That may come as a bit of a shock to anyone under 25 who generally runs their life entirely by email, mobile phone calls & texting.

Goodness me, thousands of individuals and commercial enterprises up and down the country must be very aggressive in your view, given their daily use of RD.

Perhaps there's a whole new marketing slant for the Post Office "hey, feeling aggressive? Then get yourself one of our angry orange recorded delivery stickers........":rotfl:

bandraoi wrote: »

.. RING HIM.

Shouting? now that *is* aggressive

bandraoi wrote: »

The fact that the landlord hasn't acted as a model landlord doesn't mean the best course of action is to effectively tell him:
"you're a terrible landlord, you've screwed me over, you haven't done this, that and the other, and I'm going to get the courts on to you"
and to do that in a registered letter, is worse still.

I think you're muddling all posts together there bandraoi.

As Redcar has already reminded everyone, it does not sound as though the OP's LL is an approachable, helpful ideal LL. IMO when you have a LL who only responds to a tenant's calls about repairs issues when they threaten to withhold rent, ignores the gas safety regulations, offers a TA that states that he will register the tenants deposit & provided the prescribed info but then fails to do either, then the odds are pretty stacked against him acting like LL of the Year on anything else.

bandraoi wrote: »

.. If she rings him, tells him politely she wants to move out on Day X and would like the deposit to be taken as the final months rent, he may very well agree and everyone will be happy. ..

Meena was looking at this as a possible option but clearly it's not ideal when her deposit is £74 more than the rent due for the final month. Are you a LL yourself bandraoi, or are you a tenant who can spare 70 odd quid because your LL is hard to deal with?

Olly300s suggestion was good IMO (post 22), along with getting some local support, and I'll perhaps repeat

tbs624 wrote: »

Bear in mind that what you read on this board is generally people’s opinions/interpretations (which may or may nor be based on qualification or experience) so balance it by also seeking your own clarification. You could talk to Shelter 0808 800 4444 or to the Tenancy Relations Office on the private sector rentals team at the Council: no cost but valuable guidance given.

olly300

The reason I stated use recorded delivery was due to the landlord's habit of not responding to repairs until the OP threatens to withhold rent. Decent landlords don't do this and are not impossible to get hold off.

If the OP gives notice by recorded delivery and receives the letter back in the post (which takes a maximum of 3 weeks), they can then post on this board and ask what to do next.

bandraoi

I'm not a landlord, but I have spent time working on construction sites where the job has gone to pot, and everything has started getting contractual. The process I outlined is what works best when dealing with people who don't want to live up to their responsibilities but when you need something out of them.
ie discuss it with them informally get some sort of outline agreement, then write it down and send it to them.

tbs624 wrote: »

bandraoi- sorry to lump 2 of your posts together - just easier to respond that way.

The suggestion, by Olly and others, was to use recorded delivery - absolutely not an aggressive act & entirely appropriate when dated communications are involved (such as giving your notice): it is merely a way of tracking receipt of mail. That may come as a bit of a shock to anyone under 25 who generally runs their life entirely by email, mobile phone calls & texting.

Goodness me, thousands of individuals and commercial enterprises up and down the country must be very aggressive in your view, given their daily use of RD.

The key word I used, which you appear to have missed is opening. Using recorded delivery in itself is what I recommended doing, but only after she talks to the landlord. When email, mobiles and texts are available, it's polite to let someone know your intentions before formalising them. I also believe that a letter which begins, "as per our telephone conversation of X/Y/ZZ, I am writing to let you know I intend . . . " will look a lot more reasonable if it ever does come to a courtroom.

As Redcar has already reminded everyone, it does not sound as though the OP's LL is an approachable, helpful ideal LL. IMO when you have a LL who only responds to a tenant's calls about repairs issues when they threaten to withhold rent, ignores the gas safety regulations, offers a TA that states that he will register the tenants deposit & provided the prescribed info but then fails to do either, then the odds are pretty stacked against him acting like LL of the Year on anything else.

Which is why if you read what I said, I said to put any agreement in a registered letter after she has agreed a course of action with him.

Meena was looking at this as a possible option but clearly it's not ideal when her deposit is £74 more than the rent due for the final month. Are you a LL yourself bandraoi, or are you a tenant who can spare 70 odd quid because your LL is hard to deal with?

Even as a non-model landlord he may have an agenda that ties in nicely with the OPs wishes. He may want to sell the place, he may want to fill it with 20 lithuanians, he way wish he'd upped the rent by another £100. He may be happy to have her leave and to ease that process by returning the deposit. I've had it happen for me with the shittiest landlords, which is why I think she should talk to him first.

tbs624

bandraoi wrote: »

... When email, mobiles and texts are available, it's polite to let someone know your intentions before formalising them. I also believe that a letter which begins, "as per our telephone conversation of X/Y/ZZ, I am writing to let you know I intend . . . " will look a lot more reasonable if it ever does come to a courtroom.

I take on board that you personally would see it as more polite to have a chat beforehand but I think it's important not to mislead other tenants into thinking that to not do so *would* be viewed by any Court as lower down any scale of "reasonableness" .

Most tenancy agreements simply specify that Notice must be given in writing, and any tenant who simply wrote a polite letter giving notice, and sent it via recorded delivery, is fulfilling their contractual obligation in an entirely reasonable fashion: they do not effectively "lose points" for not having a chat beforehand.

bandraoi

In a civil court, proof is on "the balance of probabilities".

If you send a letter, and the landlord states that he never got the letter and knew nothing about its contents. That the letter went missing, that someone else signed for it, the judge may be sympathetic. It's your word "I sent the letter and it was signed for" against his.

If he claims the same thing, but the letter says " as per our conversation etc." then you've reinforced the position that he knew of your intentions, and whether he received the letter or not should have expected your course of actions. If he won't answer his phone, you can even stick in "I tried to contact you by telephone on X/Y/Z at such and such times, however I was unable to reach you . . .". There is less room for doubt when you include details like these. The balance of probabilities is weighted in your favour.

You've also demonstrated that you acted reasonably, honestly and in an upfront manner from the beginning. Again, the landlord claims that you've been a terrible tenant and acted unreasonably, but from your letter you can show that not only have you lived up to your obligations you have demonstrably exceeded them. You won't lose points, but you may gain points from it.

But aside from that, don't underestimate the motivating power that the line "as per our agreement" written down has on people.
You've almost written a new contract, and signed it for him.

tbs624

bandraoi wrote: »

In a civil court, proof is on "the balance of probabilities".


If you send a letter, and the landlord states that he never got the letter and knew nothing about its contents. That the letter went missing, that someone else signed for it, the judge may be sympathetic. It's your word "I sent the letter and it was signed for" against his.

Some civil law cases for you:

Blunden v Frogmore Investments Limited (2002)
CA Webber (Transport) Limited v Railtrack Plc (2003)
Beanby Estates Limited v Egg Stores (Stamford Hill) Limited (2003)

These suggest that a letter/notice sent via RD is likely to be considered as “served” even where it could be shown that the letter was not received by the addressee. Interestingly, it appears that service is deemed to have taken place on the day it was posted.

bandraoi wrote: »

You've also demonstrated that you acted reasonably, honestly and in an upfront manner from the beginning. Again, the landlord claims that you've been a terrible tenant and acted unreasonably, but from your letter you can show that not only have you lived up to your obligations you have demonstrably exceeded them. You won't lose points, but you may gain points from it...

A terrible tenant who acts unreasonably is one who, amongst other things, does not bother with contractually correct letters of notice. A straightforward polite letter of notice with no preceding phone call really can't in way be presented as proof of your shortcomings as a tenant.

I think that your experience of construction contracts perhaps gives you a different slant on things , but going on what the OP has said in this thread I’ll agree to disagree with you on the necessity for belt-and-braces phone call/email as well as a follow up letter

tia_meena

Hi all,
thanks for all the replies.

I made the call to my landlord yesterday to inform him I wish to give my notice on the tenancy. Before I could say anything apart from calm and friendly saying :Hi C, this is Meena...How ar……… (e you?). he slammed the phone down on me. :eek: :eek: :mad:


so no more nice talk then! :mad:

I posted a still friendly (I think)- but to the point letter - with recorded delivery, copying the estate agents who dealt with the original agreement.

I also mentioned the deposit as I wanted it to be in writing that he still hadn't protected it and this is in breach of the tenancy agreement.

This is what I sent:

Dear…,
Please be advised that I wish to give 2 months notice to terminate my tenancy of the above property.

I note from my current tenancy agreement that my deposit should have been registered under Tenancy Deposit Scheme. Having contacted the 3 scheme operators, I have discovered my deposit has not been registered with any of them. In order to correct this matter would you please register my deposit and provide me with the necessary proof of registration.

I recognise that over the next 2 months you may wish to let prospective tenants view the premises and I would appreciate strict compliance with the provisions set out in clause 12.2 of the tenancy agreement regarding prior mutually acceptable viewing appointments.



Yours sincerely,


I now need to see how he is going to react.
As per my previous post- I changed the locks - so if the agent contacts me to get viewings done I can give them the key or make sure I'm home.

Let's see now if he is going to protect my deposit. As this is in breach of the agreement I might (later) inform him that I will not keep to the agreement now and not pay the last rent. :think: :think: I need to think about that. See first if he is going to harass me by entering for viewings or checking things without notice, because then I can claim disruption of the right to quiet enjoyment.

Also I still have the gas safety check I might get him on. I will threaten to call the H&S E if he doesn't give me back the deposit.

If only all of this was over soon. 2 months to go and then hopefully not too long to fight for the deposit!

Meena

tia_meena

thank you all for your replies!:beer:

Just to inform you what happened after the letter::T :T :T

Dear....,
Further to my phonecall today I confirm the points raised in our conversation with regards to your letter on the end of tenancy procedures.

1: With regards to the point on the cleaning it needs correcting that it is not a requirement to have the flat professionally cleaned as I trust you are aware of clause 10.4 in my tenancy agreement.
10.4. To clean to a good standard, or pay for the professional cleaning of the Premises at the end of the Tenancy, to the
same standard to which the Premises and Fixtures and Fittings were cleaned prior to the start of the Tenancy, as
stated in the Inventory and Schedule of Condition.

2: Also at the start of the tenancy and regardless of my verbal request direct to the landlord (he came around on the day I moved in), an Inventory and Schedule of Condition was not completed by my landlord, his agent, or a third party. I can't see how the check out report will be compiled as it needs comparison to the condition of the flat on the day I moved into the property.

3: On the deposit it needs correcting that my deposit, held by –agent- for the duration of my tenancy, has not been held under a government approved scheme. In fact it was only protected after I’ve given notice to terminate the tenancy agreement on 19/08/2008.
Up to date I still haven’t received the certificate. Today 02/09/2008 I have contacted the Tenancy Dispute Service and I’ve spoken to an adviser who informed me that my deposit was not correctly protected as only registered on 22/08/2008 and thus clearly not within the prescribed 14day period. I was therefore advised that the Tenancy Dispute scheme would be unable to adjudicate in case there is a dispute between the landlord and myself over the deposit.
After seeking advise from a Tower Hamlets Tenancy relations adviser and to avoid taking the matter to court I’m demanding the refund of my full deposit of £1200 within 7 days or confirmation that it is acceptable for the last rent instalment to be withheld and a refund of £73 (£1200 deposit - £1126.67) to be refunded by cheque within 7days. If an agreement is reached that the last rent instalment will no longer be paid to settle the above it will be agreed by doing so that this invalidates clause 6.7 of the agreement (regarding withholding payment of rent on the ground that a deposit is held) and that no further rent can be claimed by the landlord of his agent.
I’d welcome your comments on item 1-2 raised and I trust we will come to an agreement on the deposit- item 3. Please advise me how you would like to proceed.

Kind regards,

tia_meena

response from letting agent:

Dear...,
Cleaning
You are correct in stating that it is not a requirement to have the property “professionally cleaned” as your tenancy agreement states at clause 10.4 that it need be cleaned to a good standard or professionally cleaned. Some tenants do choose to have the property cleaned by contract cleaners and the contact numbers and prices are on the letter should you wish to do this, but there is no formal requirement that you must. To clean the property to a good standard is perfectly acceptable (as per your tenancy agreement).
Inventory
It does sometimes occur that an inventory is not completed for a property, despite requests and recommendations that this is best practice. I would advise that you leave the property in good order and as you found when you first entered in January 2005, save for reasonable wear and tear.
Deposit and final rental payment
We agree that in this circumstance that the best way forward is that you do not make a payment for the final rent of ?1126.67 due on the 21st September 2008 and that payment will be sent to you by 9th September 2008 for the sum of ?73.00 as re-imbursement of your deposit of ?1200.00.
We confirm that no further demand would be made for rent and would be grateful for your confirmation that this settles the matter of your deposit.
Kind Regards

tia_meena

got my deposit back before I even moved out! :T :T


All happy in my new home now.

:rotfl: :rotfl: