Braking with the gears what ridiculous practice

Wig

6th gear

My cars have only had
5 + R or
4 + R

Ok I guess some of you have cars with 6 + R but it's not the norm.

Idiophreak

pault123 wrote: »

Same example again dual carriage way 40mph, 4th gear. Take foot off revs - let the engine braking go as long as possible then brake and use clutch as needed. But yet some insist on 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st!

But the point is, in this stage, you're going to be going a lot faster in 5th than you would in 4th, so you'll have to brake a lot more when it comes to braking than someone sensibly shifting down the gears.

I'm sure you'll find *very few* people actually go all the way down the box like that...most often in that situation they'll shift down to 4th or 3rd straight off, maybe down to second again if there's time, then brake down to a stop from there...You hardly ever see people using first gear to brake...

Idiophreak

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers! wrote: »

The safest method of stopping the car is to use the brakes, allowing the engine speed to drop to a point just above where it naturally begins to labour, and then to dip the clutch, using the brakes to stop the car, applying the parking brake, and then moving the gear selector to neutral.

What if you were on ice?

Slowing steadily using the gears would work out *much* safer than just using the brakes.

The safest method is to assess the road, the conditions and your vehicle, then use some combination of brakes and engine braking accordingly.

Of course this *does* require "more thought"...but then God forbid you should actually have to think about driving...

AdrianHi

Wig wrote: »

6th gear

My cars have only had
5 + R or
4 + R

Ok I guess some of you have cars with 6 + R but it's not the norm.

It's becoming more common, it allows manufacturers to obtain better MPG and lower CO2 emissions on the "official" tests.

I'm not going to try and respond to individual posts, I'm just going to say of course you use engine breaking, there's no need to go down gears in order, cars have had decent synchromeshes for years, I'm thinking of avoiding change downs that cause high revs and more wear on the clutch as you re-engage it that can be avoided by changing down at slower speeds sometime before the engine labours using the brakes to take the strain.
I'm not even going to try and guess what might me necessary on a 44 tonne (or what ever weight they go up to) lorry as I expect it's a different ball game and not what we are discussing here.
I'm not a HGV driver and I also don't think being a HGV driver qualifies someone to know all there is to know about motoring, cars and how they work or gives them the right to be rude and abusive on a public forum.

BillScarab

AdrianHi wrote: »

It's becoming more common, it allows manufacturers to obtain better MPG and lower CO2 emissions on the "official" tests.

I'm not going to try and respond to individual posts, I'm just going to say of course you use engine breaking, there's no need to go down gears in order, cars have had decent synchromeshes for years, I'm thinking of avoiding change downs that cause high revs and more wear on the clutch as you re-engage it that can be avoided by changing down at slower speeds sometime before the engine labours using the brakes to take the strain.
I'm not even going to try and guess what might me necessary on a 44 tonne (or what ever weight they go up to) lorry as I expect it's a different ball game and not what we are discussing here.
I'm not a HGV driver and I also don't think being a HGV driver qualifies someone to know all there is to know about motoring, cars and how they work or gives them the right to be rude and abusive on a public forum.

You can always double de-clutch to avoid the sudden increase in revs.

I agree on using a combination of engine braking and brakes.

What I don't understand is some people seem to be suggesting that you don't change gear at all when slowing down just use the brakes and then change out of top gear once you're stationary.

Road_Hog

oldagetraveller wrote: »

Even before the "eco nazis" took over the country it was always advised to use brakes to slow down.

Not true. The original advice, from driving instructors, Highway Code etc., was to use your gears to aid breaking on steep downhill slopes.

The reasoning for this was, car brakes weren't as efficient at the time and could have had drum brakes on both front and rear. By using the gears, you aided the brakes, which could possibilly fail. The idea was more to get it in the right gear before the car started to "run away" rather than to have to hack it in to a lower gear to actually brake the car.

The older ones on the forum will remember the run away pits at the side of the road at the bottom of a steep hill for those whose brakes had failed.

Like every thing, the advice has changed nowadays, as most cars have very efficient disc brakes all round, that are very unlikely to fail and have components that are far cheaper to replace than gearboxes and clutches.
However you should still have the car in gear at all times to aid control of the car.

Another piece of advice that would have changed is Cadence braking in the wet/ice, as you would just let the ABS take care of that these days.

Ebe_Scrooge

My grandad said that he was always taught to use a combination of gears and brakes to slow down.

HOWEVER

In those days, brakes were very much less efficient than today, and would easily overheat, so it was pretty much a necessity.

These days, brakes are capable of slowing the car by themselves. Using gears as well will reduce wear on the brakes, but brakes are much cheaper to replace than the drivetrain.

When going down long hills, it's wise to shift to a lower gear to reduce the amount of braking that has to be done, as even modern brakes can overheat if pushed too hard. And when driving on ice or snow, you really should try to avoid touching the brakes at all. This is possible by driving carefully, using the gears and reading the conditions well ahead.

< sits back and waits for the flaming >

tomstickland

pault123 wrote: »

Can anyone who drops down from 6th to 5th to 4th to 3rd, to 2nd to 1st simply to come to a stop - instead of using a higher gear with engine braking and then neutral gear and foot brake explain why?!

The wear factor must be insane on the clutch, flywheel, gearbox by using the gears to slow the car.

Control of the vehicle at all speeds. If you plan far enough ahead you can slow down with very little braking. Personally I tend to use engine braking + brakes and blip the throttle on the downchanges to bring the engine rpm up to match. I enjoy the challenge.

Braking in neutral is bad practice, at least have it in a gear.

I agree on using a combination of engine braking and brakes.

What I don't understand is some people seem to be suggesting that you don't change gear at all when slowing down just use the brakes and then change out of top gear once you're stationary.

I agree with this.


ie:
going 5-4-3-2-1 is maybe a bit excessive.
Use the brakes but also change to, say, 3rd and then 2nd.
Leaving in 6th and then changing to neutral + brakes is not something I'd do.

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

Idiophreak wrote: »

What if you were on ice?

Slowing steadily using the gears would work out *much* safer than just using the brakes.

The safest method is to assess the road, the conditions and your vehicle, then use some combination of brakes and engine braking accordingly.

Of course this *does* require "more thought"...but then God forbid you should actually have to think about driving...

You are wrong. Slowing a vehicle on ice using gearchanges will result in instability, possibly causing the rear end of the car to swing around and a subsequent loss of control.

Using the brakes applies force to all wheels, not just those wheels that are driven, and changing gear while braking just means that the driver is less capable of correcting any loss of control with the steering wheel.

Incisor

Ebe_Scrooge wrote: »

... When going down long hills, it's wise to shift to a lower gear to reduce the amount of braking that has to be done, as even modern brakes can overheat if pushed too hard. And when driving on ice or snow, you really should try to avoid touching the brakes at all. This is possible by driving carefully, using the gears and reading the conditions well ahead.

< sits back and waits for the flaming >

No flaming for that last bit. Hot brakes lose their grip.