Extortionate Deeds Release Fees

Bossyboots

The DS1 is the form that the mortgagee signs to be sent to the Land Registry to confirm that the mortgage has been paid and to have the charge removed from the property.

It is simple enough to download from the Land Registry site, complete, send to the mortgage company for them to sign and they should then send it straight on to the Land Registry.

Abbey are part of the electronic pilot but refused to use this system which means them submitting the DS1 online, unless I paid the proportion of their fees for the "legal" expenses.

Ian_W

gwarrenk,
I don't think the fact you've got your deeds will mean your lender won't charge some sort of fee [most are now calling it a "redemption fee" rather than "sealing" and/or "deeds release"]. They still hold a legal charge over your property and won't discharge it with the Land Registry when you redeem or allow a remortgage elsewhere, until you've paid.

Point is, and not wishing to be unsympathetic to other posters, these type of fees are notified in the KFI or T&C's when you take out the mortgage.

What is wrong, very wrong IMO, is that most lenders, lead by A&L, have bumped them up from a typical £50-£100 to a now typical £200-£300. They've applied these increases to existing borrowers, in many cases without even telling them.

There's a thread HERE about A&L's outrageous charges with some specimen letters sent by lisyloo which got her a reduction to a more reasonable level than the £295 they wanted to charge. I used these as a template with the Coventry and they reduced their fees from £195 to the £95 that existed when I signed up with them 3 years previously. The 4 bullet points I used were:
1. Charge is unfair & unreasonable for work involved.
2. Increase totally out of line with wage or general inflation.
3. Increase not notified.
4. Issue a dispute letter as I'm off to the FOS if you don't reduce them.

I think if you take that approach they will, most likely, reduce their fees to something more like you were originally quoted when you took out the mortgage.

BoL.

alared

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_Forms&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_PROD1_024700

Bossyboots

Ian_W wrote:

gwarrenk,

Point is, and not wishing to be unsympathetic to other posters, these type of fees are notified in the KFI or T&C's when you take out the mortgage.

What is wrong, very wrong IMO, is that most lenders, lead by A&L, have bumped them up from a typical £50-£100 to a now typical £200-£300. They've applied these increases to existing borrowers, in many cases without even telling them.

We were aware that there would be a "nominal" fee payable for release of our deeds. What annoyed us though was the way it had gone up and up over the period of the mortgage and at the time, we believed there was nothing we could do about it. The figures do not match the work involved. The DS1 is standard to them and, as I have said, abbey are part of the electronic system as well so it is even quicker and cheaper for them than some other lenders. The notice about the increase in charges was sent out each year with the mortgage statement so we were aware it was more than a nominal amount but certainly not the level it had risen to.

Ian_W

Bossyboots,
I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet on this one.

Interestingly though, the letter I have from the Coventry admits they only informed those whose mortgages were being redeemed around the time of the change, oh and they posted it on their notice boards at their office!!

greenwich

I am bringing this old thread back to report the outcome of my complaint to the Ombudsman. Without any correspondence with us, they persuaded Abbey to reduce the fee from £225 to £99, which is what the Ombudsman considers reasonable. So we will be getting a £126 refund.

Don't accept these extortionate fees without a fight!

silvercar

Coventry now include the redemption costs on their list of charges they distribute with the annual statements. There is a footnote that says the charge only applies if you are redeeming early rather than at the end of the term.

davelewis

Hello

I used to work for the Land Registry until last year.

Since Land Registration Act 2002 - there really is no such thing as deeds in registered land. Once property is registered - the "deeds" are simply a copy of the register, a copy of the title plan and if mortgaged a copy of the mortgage deed. So bank charges for release of "deeds" is a joke!! I would challenge this if i was you.

If Land is not registered - getting less and less unlikley now - then yes - the old deeds (transfer of ownership documnets) are important and do need to be retained in a safe place. You can contact the Registry to see if land is registered - and get a copy of the register and title plan for £2 each from https://www.landregisteronline.gov.uk.

Form DS1 is a discharge form (to discharge the mortgage from the register). Although a lot of lenders these days do it electronically (called an END which is transmitted directly to the Land Registry).

Hope this helps. Have quit the Land Registry to become a solicitor - i realise from experience where the REAL money in Land Law is to be made!!!!!!

dave

Ian_W

Hi Dave,
Thanks for that useful insight, which no doubt explains why "deeds release" fees have now been replaced by several times more expensive mortgage redemption fees [or similar] - being a solicitor isn't the only place where good money can be made from land law, obviously being a lender does quite nicely for them too!!

Do the Land Reg records contain things like covenants, rights of way, who is responsible for the boundary fence, etc and make deeds for registered land totally redundant? If so, there's another wizard wheeze for lenders - offering schemes like deedsafe or similar, in the hope you don't know they no longer have any real value!! It's very close to obtaining money by deception, IMO.

davelewis

Hello again

Yes the register does contain covenants, rights of way (also refered to as easements) and maintenance of boundary fences. But only where the original deeds specify these things. Basically when a property goes into the land registry for the first time a register is created. All of the important bits (covenants, rights of way etc) are taken from the old paper deeds and typed on the register. If they are very lenghty however, a copy of the deed is retained in the registry and a note on the register says (Copy deed filed). The register is meant to replace all the old title deeds - it is much safer to have these details on computer (in case the old deeds get lost or destroyed etc) and makes the conveyancing process much easier, quicker and in theory cheaper!!!

Unregistered land is getting less common as the Registry has a target of a complete register by 2012. Meaning that by this date they want all Land Registered. Anyway most land that is currently unregistered has normally passed down through families or has not been sold for many years - as soon as it is sold, registration is compulsory.

dave.