Tenants didn't pay the rent

tbs624

clutton wrote: »

....Squatnows views on Section 21 notices are his opinion only, and not legally factual.

Don't think Squat has pronounced on S21s in this thread, unless I have missed it, flicking back through? Do you mean Franklee's post a couple back?

clutton wrote: »

.The landlords associations, and solicitors, are still saying that a Section 21 notice can be served at any time after the start of a tenancy - except if a deposit has not been lodged with a Scheme.

Re the new Deposit protection scheme - there is still no clear cut legal judgement on the legal timing of issue of Section 21s.

and whilst there is no such clear cut judgement, *anyone's* views one way or another are just that - their own views. This would include the Landlord Associations et al.

Experienced LL & T lawyers will always check not only the wording/dates on a S21 but when that S21 was served in relation to the signing of the Tenancy Agreement, and more recently,in relation to the registering of a deposit. You clearly can't give a valid Notice on a Tenancy Agreement that is not yet in force, and the wording of the Housing Act 2004 S215 is:

"(1)If a tenancy deposit has been paid in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy at a time when—

(a)the deposit is not being held in accordance with an authorised scheme, or

(b)the initial requirements of such a scheme (see section 213(4)) have not been complied with in relation to the deposit.

(2)If section 213(6) is not complied with in relation to a deposit given in connection with a shorthold tenancy, no section 21 notice may be given in relation to the tenancy until such time as section 213(6)(a) is complied with."

It may be that it was not the intention of the wording of what, IMO, is a poorly thought out/drafted piece of legislation, but if it stops LLs/LAs simply slipping that S21 in , under the radar as it were, & makes it necessary for it to be served separately form the tenancy agreement then I think that can only be a good thing.

As always - anyone with S21 issues should try to get qualified legal advice locally or ring Shelter 0808 800 4444

clutton_2

apologies to squattie !!

Lavendyr

clearmydebts wrote: »

I just don't like the way the previous poster hadn't read the full thread, got the wrong end of the stick and presumed I was going to start witholding repairs. I think if you are going to comment than it is only fair to get the general idea of what is going on.

With all respect, I think you are reading something into fergie's post that was not there. I read and re-read the post and could not see anything that could be taken as stating that you would withhold repairs.

I really think that while you may not be asking specifically about it, what fergie and others have mentioned on this thread is a very important point and could save you a lot in future. You need to think of your tenancy as a business. And every business has to plan for bad debts. If your tenants fail to pay, you need to be able to cover that, for your own good. If you cannot do that, you may find yourself in trouble with your mortgage. That is one of the risks of renting out your house. Good tenants will not intentionally put you in that position, but even the best of tenants with the best of intentions could have problems such as job loss, long-term sickness and so on, and find themselves unable to pay rent.

And of course, you can evict non-paying tenants, firstly by serving a S8 notice (backing up with an S21 can be useful, according to posts I have read here) but when you do ultimately get rid of them, in the first place they will not have paid rent for at least two months (possibly more if you have to go to court to evict them), and in the second place, even when you do finally get them out, you may have a period when your flat is void of tenants, until you find a new tenant to take it on.

I think that what fergie was pointing out was that in addition to void periods, if the house needed some substantial repair work while the tenant was in situ, but the tenant was not paying their rent, could you still afford to carry out that repair work?

So as a landlord, you need to be able to deal with void periods, and it really sounds like you do not have anything in place for this. While you may not be asking for advice on this matter, it is entirely relevant to your question, because ultimately, most landlords will have problems with a tenant at some point, and if you don't have the funds to meet your mortgage payments, whether the tenant pays or not, it is you that will lose out.

I hope that helps, it was sincerely meant in kindness and I wish you the best of luck with your tenants.

franklee

tbs624 wrote: »

Experienced LL & T lawyers will always check not only the wording/dates on a S21 but when that S21 was served in relation to the signing of the Tenancy Agreement, and more recently,in relation to the registering of a deposit. You clearly can't give a valid Notice on a Tenancy Agreement that is not yet in force,

Quite right. But just for completeness the signing of the tenancy agreement doesn't denote the start of the tenancy. It's possible to sign the tenancy agreement days in advance of the tenancy start date. So key handover will be considered also along with the start specified in the tenancy agreement.

snip legislation

tbs624 wrote: »

It may be that it was not the intention of the wording of what, IMO, is a poorly thought out/drafted piece of legislation, but if it stops LLs/LAs simply slipping that S21 in , under the radar as it were, & makes it necessary for it to be served separately form the tenancy agreement then I think that can only be a good thing.

Yes more difficult but still possible as the deposit may be taken in advance so that the funds are cleared before the tenancy agreement is signed. In which case there may have been time to comply with the deposit requirements.

It all depends on the details and everyone probably does it a bit differently.