Return of Deposit Queries....

iamstacie

Hi All,

Its now over 6 weeks since I handed back the keys to my old house, and despite phonecalls, emails and plenty of broken promises on the behalf of the management agency, I'm still missing my £700 deposit. Is this a reasonably amount of time to be waiting for it? I had thought a month would be more than enough.

I sent them another email on Monday stating that if my deposit hadn't been returned to me either by cheque or by BACS then I would start small claims court proceedings incl interest and court charges. I still haven't received anything, not even a reply from them, so I'll complete my form tomorrow. Do I need to go through the whole thing? Or do I send a 'letter before action' to my LL and the lettings management team, maybe including a print out of the filled in but not submitted forms (fully managed lease - no LL involvement)?. They have admitted - verbally - that the house was spotless, and I have a few but not many, dated photos showing where I sanded down the door and repainted, and sorted out a few problems which were not really my responsibility, but I wanted to make sure everything was perfect so as not to delay the return of my deposit!

My contract states '£475' deposit amount, but I paid an extra £200 for my dog, this is written in their files, and I have the original receipt for £1150 (deposit + rent) - is this going to be a problem? All my correspondence with them clearly states "full deposit - £675" which they haven't disputed so far.

Also, I originally moved in December 21st 2006, and paid my deposit. In May 2007 I received a (generic) letter saying 'we are part of TDS, all deposits unless LL managed to be with TDS', the new contract signed 18th June 2007 also clearly states "The holder of the deposit will register the deposit with ..... the Tenancy Deposit Scheme and provide proof to the tenant of compliance". Am I to read then, that my deposit should have been protected? I know a lot of weight is given to the word 'should' in the case of a tenancy starting prior to April 07, but with my contract stating it WILL be registered - do I have to go through different channels? I have also been told - again verbally - that it is registered, however, I have had no proof of this, and I don't believe it ever was.


On a separate issue, am I correct in think LLs shouldn't just 'drop in' on their tenants without notice? I was out today but a note was put through the door by my LL asking to meet us which I have no problem with, but I'd like notice, I'm not the tidiest of people and would like some time to at least hoover (actually I found it upstairs but I'm hoping the dog moved it and the LL hasn't just let himself in :S )

Editted to say....There was never an inventory provided, signed or otherwise, although I was told on my last inspection that 'one would have been done'.

If you've gotten this far, thank you, and if you can offer any advise it would be greatly appreciated

Thanks in advance,
Stacie

iamstacie

*bump*

Can anyone offer advise on this please?

Thanks

Premier_2

No it's certainly not reasonable to wait 6 weeks for a deposit to be returned (unless its in dispute)

Before the introduction of the TDS schemes deposits were often given back the same day as the tenancy ended (at least by private LLs, LAs may have delayed things a few days) - unfortunately now you have to wait a couple of weeks.

As you've waited over 6 weeks, you may have missed the boat to file a claim with any TDS scheme. I was reading earlier where it needed to be filed within 20 working days under one scheme.

If you are too late, your only option to get the deposit back if the LL is not willing to give it is to sue him in a county court.



Not sure what you mean by a LL dropping in. The LL needs to provide 24 hours notice normally to enter the property. In this case, it appears you've been provided with a form of notice. Contact him and arrange a mutual time.

iamstacie

Thank you for your help. I contact the TDS and they have confirmed that as the LA are a member, the deposit would be protected (insurance scheme), but as you pointed out, it is well outside the 20 working days to lodge a dispute.

Yesterday, the LA finally got in touch with the LL and he informed them that he was withholding the deposit because a fridge was missing on checkout. The LA called me to inform me of this, and I pointed out that the LL authorised the removal of the fridge as it was not fit for purpose, they then called the LL back and he decided that if he couldn't retain monies for the fridge then he would retain £60 for rent arrears - not owed - and £90 for cleaning, despite the house being cleaner when I left than when I took it on. There was no inventory, and the check out report showed no problems. The fact he changed his mind about what grounds he wants to withhold my deposit on, to me suggests he's clutching at straws.

The LA suggested I go to the TDS, but as I pointed out to them, its well outside the 20 days, and I've still had nothing in writing to actually contest. I am right in thinking any undisputed amounts should have been returned to me, and that the tenant should have been informed of any intentions to make deduction within 10 working days?

I also think that in order to make deductions for cleaning, there would need to be an inventory/check in report, as well as 3 quotes taken and the cheapest used?

If I'm wrong on any of these points, could someone correct me before I make a mistake and jeopardise my claim?

I'm unsure of my next move....I will ring TDS and speak with them to see if they can do anything or offer advise, and I've written a massive statement of everything that happened throughout my tenancy, detailing my landlords many failings, which is no doubt unnecessary, but it was certainly cathartic! I don't know if its worth sending it to the LL/LA/TDS or just keeping it for reference should further problems come up with regards the dispute. Do I need to send a 'letter before action' or anything? I sent an email last week saying I'd go to court, but that was before I found out I may be protected by the TDS.

Sorry if this is all a bit jumbled. All advise appreciated.

clutton_2

the deposit schemes have arbitration processes for exactly these situations. phone them and talk to them and take their advice. if the LA/LL has not done an inventory they are on very sticky ground indeed to try to make ANY deposit reductions. keep your long saga (very useful and it gets it out of your system) - you may need to write a condensed version for the arbiter.

you shoudl also read EagerLearners thread on here - a long read, but well worth while - it will show you the whole court process

bw

redcar_2

The TDS rules of membership says the following and I would have thought that procrastination sums up your landlords actions.

I would write to the LA to confirm the details of your recent conversation(s) about the deposit, especially the bit about LL changing his reasons for witholding the deposit and that the check out report showed no problems - you need to start creating a paper trail if they won't send you anything in writing.

Also ask them to write to you and confirm their understanding of the situation, the amount in dispute and the balance to be paid to you immediately.

Do you have the support of the LA? It sounds as if the LL is messing them around too.


http://www.thedisputeservice.co.uk/resources/files/TDS%20A%20Rules%20of%20membership%202nd%20edition.pdf

Section 8.10
The ICE will not normally accept disputes submitted six months or more after
the end of a tenancy. However, he may exercise his discretion to do so,
particularly where he considers that:

8.10.1 the parties have been making efforts to resolve the dispute during that
time

8.10.2 the the delay has been caused by the Member’s procrastination

tbs624

Stacie - you say that there was no inventory and yet you refer to a check out report?

Are you sure that there was there not a similar check-in report at the start?

Also, the fact that a LL or a LA is a member of TDS does not necessarily mean that your * actual tenancy *was registered. Assuming that it’s definitely TDS that the LA uses you may find the next bit of info useful:

This is from their dispute progress info:

“The ICE (Independent Case Examiner) will be able to deal with your dispute even if your tenancy has not been registered with TDS.But you may be better advised to take action in a county court. This is because, under the Housing Act 2004,Section 214,you could beawarded the whole of your deposit plus three times its amount by way of compensation for failure to register the tenancy. The ICE can award no more than the amount of the deposit.

Do you want the ICE to resolve your dispute,or would you rather go to court?

*You may go to court if you prefer, and the ICE can only deal with your dispute if both you and the landlord agree that you want him to do so (except where the landlord refuses to make any decision, then the dispute will automatically go to the ICE).* Most people prefer the ICE because they feel that his way of resolving disputes will be quicker, cheaper and less stressful. Like the courts, he is also independent and authoritative.”

(My highlighting) Because there have not yet been enough cases, there is no guarantee that you would get 3 x your deposit if the LL/LA has not registered your tenancy & its deposit but unless the LL has good reason to deduct from the deposit the court would order him to repay it to you, along with cost of court fees.

You do need to ask TDS to confirm whether * the actual tenancy * has been registered, and if it was, on which date.

You may possibly decide to write along the lines of:

Letter Before Action
Dear LL
Tenancy of (property address) from until
I moved out the above property on (date) , having paid all rent & utility bills due up to date, and having left the property in the same condition as it was at the start of the tenancy, fair wear and tear excepted.

Despite phoning/emailing/visiting your offices on (give dates/times/ & name of person dealt with) six weeks have now passed and I have still not received the return of my deposit. However, I have received verbal suggestions from (name) that varying amounts were to be deducted. These have changed from time to time and have included:

·Missing fridge £60 - the fridge was removed by agreement as it was unfit for purpose
·Rent arrears £60 - my rent was fully paid up until the end of my tenancy, as required under the Tenancy Agreement
·Cleaning £90 - I have confirmed that I left the property in good, clean order and the check out report was dealt with by (name) who did not highlight any problems.

I now formally request that you return the full sum of £x to me within the next 7 days.

I also wish the following to be noted:

Under the Housing Act 2004, my deposit should have been scheme-registered within 14 days of you receiving it: I did not receive confirmation from you that this was done, either during my tenancy or after it.

Additionally, under The Housing (Tenancy Deposits) (Prescribed Information) Order 2007 I should also have received certain “prescribed information”, again within 14 days. I have been given no further information other than this term in my Tenancy Agreement - (then quote relevant clause(s) from it)

I would prefer us to be able to deal amicably with these issues but if the matter cannot be resolved then I shall begin proceedings at the County Court to seek return of the deposit, sanctions for failure to comply with the deposit regulations, plus interest on my deposit and the costs of my court fees.

Or (depending on which option you choose)

seek resolution via the Independent Case Examiner at TDS
I look forward to hearing from you by (date - 7days from when LA/LL will receive letter)
Yours etc

You will obviously need to keep the Deposit admin people informed.
Do everything via good old-fashioned snail mail & keep copies. As Clutton says, keep your other notes handy - you just have to be careful not to unnecessarily muddy the waters in the early stages.

Premier_2

If there is a dispute, what happens to the deposit?

The member will transfer the disputed amount to TheDispute Service. It has a special cash fund which enables the ICE to carry onwith an adjudication and to pay out the deposit even if themember has not sent it. If the member has not sent the deposit,The Dispute Service will claim it from its insurers as necessary. It will then pursue the member for repayment. The Dispute Service will pay out the deposit according to the instructions of the ICE following his award.

How are disputes resolved?

• You have 20 working days to raise a dispute,and the Member has 10 working days to resolve it.
• If not,you decide if you want to go to court, or to have the ICE deal with it –which is what most people prefer.
...

more info here: http://www.thedisputeservice.co.uk/resources/files/TDS%20E%20What%20is%20TDS%20A4.pdf

RichPenny

I'd like to see the second hand fridge that was worth £675. As you believe, your landlord clearly sees that the deposit is part of his income. It isn't, it is provided to ensure that money is there to cover any damage you may cause to the property. This is why an inventory is taken, to establish the state of the property before you move in. If the landlord cannot reasonably prove that you have caused damage (and he cannot if you have not signed an inventory) then he cannot retain any of your deposit. It's YOUR money, so get it back.

redcar_2

tbs624 I don't know if you've always been doing it but you've given a few OPs recently some really great letter templates for various renting issues which I see coming up again and again. I was just wondering if we can get some these added to the tenants stciky or another one somewhere as I am sure they would be useful for others too.

iamstacie

tbs624 wrote: »

Stacie - you say that there was no inventory and yet you refer to a check out report?

Are you sure that there was there not a similar check-in report at the start?

Thank you very much for that letter, looks very comprehensive to me. Regarding the inventory/check-in report, I was never given anything or asked to sign anything that said 'the house is in xxx condition, there is a table/washing machine etc'. The person who handled the check out report was very good and 'on the ball', but he didn't start there until after my tenancy started. When I asked about an inventory before I left (so I could make sure everything was ok) he said 'there would have been one', but despite requests I was never sent one. Thankfully, I'm quite anal about keeping paperwork and I believe I have everything they ever sent me.

I have spoken with the TDS again who gave me my reference number, but have advised that as my deposit was registered late (16th July 07 rather than 20th June+14 days) it's unlikely they'd take my case on. I've also spoken to the lettings management centre, on advise of the TDS, to ask why it was registered late as this may invalid the LL's claims to any deposit for not acting in accordance with the law, and to ask how much he intended to withhold for the fridge. I'm just waiting for a call back now.

Thank you all very much for the advise so far

Stacie