Ireland economy hitting the Buffers !!

WTF?_2

stonethrower wrote: »

Where did I say they were Irish owned (you should really learn to read)

http://www.idaireland.com/home/index.aspx?id=173

You said that " Ireland is a very big producer of computer software" which I take to mean software development.

In fact, as I pointed out, it is not.

The 'software producer' myth comes from the Microsoft package facility in Dublin which all by itself makes Ireland a huge 'software exporter'. It is not a hub of software development by any stretch of the imagination.

Most of the software 'development' which goes on by the corporates (not just MS) is European localisation (translation of documentaion and user interfaces) and 'manufacturing' (ie physically packing the software). The IDA link you gave recognises this. You certainly won't find anything to say that Ireland actually is a hub of software development because it isn't.

Ireland is attractive for this sort of thing because of very attractive rates of corporation tax within the EU and a formerly low cost of operation (long since gone). Unfortunately, making non-english manuals and helpfiles and putting CDs into shrinkwrap boxes isn't the sort of hi-tech business that will prove to be hard to transplant to another, much cheaper, European country. Most likely in the new entrants where generous EU aid will be available.


Of course, if you really did only just mean to claim that 'Ireland is a place where lots of software packages are phyiscally put into boxes then you are quite right.

Generali

Ireland does have a huge amount of financial back office work that has been outsourced there. Lots of these jobs aren't looking too secure right now given the current state of Intl Finance!

m00m00

and in the mainland UK, we don't do a lot more than repackage other people's stuff, and sell overpriced houses to each other.

WTF?_2

Generali wrote: »

Ireland does have a huge amount of financial back office work that has been outsourced there. Lots of these jobs aren't looking too secure right now given the current state of Intl Finance!

I believe that the dodgy sub-prime deals which almost brought down Germany's Sachsen Landesbank last year were done in Dublin (allegedly due to it's reputation for having even more lax financial regulation than London) ....

http://www.tiscali.co.uk/news/newswire.php/news/reuters/2007/08/27/business/barclays-helped-design-conduit-for-sachsenlb.html&template=/news/feeds/story-template-reuters.html

http://42nd-notepad.blogspot.com/2007/08/sachsenlb-had-eu46-billion-in-secret.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/08/26/business/Bank.php


It doesn't really look good for the IFSC in Dublin at all.....

kennyboy66_2

It never ceases to amaze me that Ireland has higher GDP per capita, higher wages & a better health and education system all based on making a few pints of Guinness and putting software CD's into boxes.

stonethrower

!!!!!!? wrote: »

You said that " Ireland is a very big producer of computer software" which I take to mean software development.

In fact, as I pointed out, it is not.

The 'software producer' myth comes from the Microsoft package facility in Dublin which all by itself makes Ireland a huge 'software exporter'. It is not a hub of software development by any stretch of the imagination.

Most of the software 'development' which goes on by the corporates (not just MS) is European localisation (translation of documentaion and user interfaces) and 'manufacturing' (ie physically packing the software). The IDA link you gave recognises this. You certainly won't find anything to say that Ireland actually is a hub of software development because it isn't.

Ireland is attractive for this sort of thing because of very attractive rates of corporation tax within the EU and a formerly low cost of operation (long since gone). Unfortunately, making non-english manuals and helpfiles and putting CDs into shrinkwrap boxes isn't the sort of hi-tech business that will prove to be hard to transplant to another, much cheaper, European country. Most likely in the new entrants where generous EU aid will be available.


Of course, if you really did only just mean to claim that 'Ireland is a place where lots of software packages are phyiscally put into boxes then you are quite right.

As I said I know people working there and they are not packaging do you think they would invest 500 euro to package software.
In late 2007, the company announced its latest expansion in Ireland with plans to locate the company's first Windows Live EMEA Data Centre in Dublin with an investment of $500 million. The Data Centre, which is currently under construction, will be located at Grange Castle Business Park, Co. Dublin.

WTF?_2

stonethrower wrote: »

As I said I know people working there and they are not packaging do you think they would invest 500 euro to package software.
In late 2007, the company announced its latest expansion in Ireland with plans to locate the company's first Windows Live EMEA Data Centre in Dublin with an investment of $500 million. The Data Centre, which is currently under construction, will be located at Grange Castle Business Park, Co. Dublin.

I didn't say there was no software development - just that the reputation for being a major 'software manufacturing' country is literally just that - pressing CDs and plonking them in a box with manuals and then shrinkwrapping it.

I don't think that the IT industry in Ireland is going to prove to be very resilient at all, unfortunately. Most of it was based on being convenient for US companies to invest in at the time (mid 90s) due to low corporate tax and low costs. Aside from a few major infrastructure investments (Intel's fabs and MS's new data centre), most of it could very quickly be moved to any of the new EU members to take advantage of lower costs. Especially once they start joining the Eurozone. eg. Dell have already started to move manufacturing jobs to Poland for their PC assembly/packing business.

That Data Centre by the way is planned to have something like only 75 employees manning it despite the huge cost of building it. It's a large server farm that will just need a staff of people to handle the physical care of the servers and associated infrastructure. I'd imagine that even the sysadmin work will be done remotely from somewhere else.

WTF?_2

kennyboy66 wrote: »

It never ceases to amaze me that Ireland has higher GDP per capita, higher wages & a better health and education system all based on making a few pints of Guinness and putting software CD's into boxes.

GDP was based on an absolutely booming property market and foreign corporations booking their European profits in Ireland to pay lower tax.

You just have to look at the spectacular fall of the Irish stock market this year to realise that it was even more of a 'miracle economy' then Gordon and Tony's New Labour utopia.

stonethrower

I'd imagine that even the sysadmin work will be done remotely from somewhere else

You do a lot of imagining and no facts.

As for industry moving elsewhere that's the was its always been.

WTF?_2

stonethrower wrote: »

You do a lot of imagining and no facts.

I'm simply commenting on available facts and extrapolating from there. The 1/2 bn Euro data centre isn't going to be a big employer - fact - and datacentres are usually administered remotely rather than onsite - in my experience.

If you have some evidence to counteract my opinion that the sysadmin work will not be done remotely then by all means feel free to correct me. I'm quite interested to know more about the setup - I might ask my mate who works in MS Dublin for more info.

However, you do seem pretty tetchy so I 'imagine' you are just trying to get a jibe in. Nice try but I'm not biting.

As for industry moving elsewhere that's the was its always been.

Sure - just pointing out that Ireland is going to be pretty vulnerable to this. It gained it's economic success from poaching investment from other more expensive European countries and will just have to accept that the same can happen to it from the new member states.