Annual Leave ban - can they do this?

Doodles

Hi -
I wonder if I could ask some advice please – I’ve got bit of a dilemma regarding annual leave and my new job. Would like people’s advice! Here’s the facts:

• I recently got myself a job in the NHS (its office based work, not healthcare related) and I started 4 weeks ago.
• At my interview, they asked if I’d had any holiday booked over the summer. I replied no but I would need to take 2 weeks off in August to cover childcare. They said if I was successful then they would need to know as soon as possible about the dates.
• A week later they offered me the job. I stated that I now had confirmed dates in August. The recruitment officer said he’d check that was ok and get back to me. He did and said that was ok.
• So I started the job and it was only then one the managers told me that leave during July and August was not permitted. They seem to have accepted that I will be off on leave late August more as a ‘one off’. So this year isn’t a problem, but of course from next year it will be.

This is a big deal for me as I have a have a son of school age and I will absolutely need to take 2 weeks somewhere during the school holidays. He is 12, not now needing a childminder as such but the way me and my ex cover the summer hols period is he takes 2 weeks off, I take 2 weeks off and the other 2 weeks he spends on holiday with his grandma/granddad. It all works very well and my son enjoys spending time with all of us.

The way I see it, it’s not just about childcare as such – it won’t be very long until he’s grown up and I would like to enjoy those last few summers I have with him.

If I had been told of the ban on leave over July/Aug I would not have taken the position. I feel it unfair it was not mentioned at any stage before I took the job.

Has anyone else experienced this please? Can they legally do this, or hold me to this?

Just to note that this is not mentioned in my contract either, just verbally by a manager in front of another manager. I said nothing at that moment as partly was a bit shocked and partly wanted to seek advice before I raise this properly.

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated thank you.

Little_Chicken

I'm pretty sure they can't do this - it seems like it would be some form of discrimination. what's their reasoning behind it. is there something that happens during this period to make the department particularly busy?

Doodles

Little_Chicken wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they can't do this - it seems like it would be some form of discrimination. what's their reasoning behind it. is there something that happens during this period to make the department particularly busy?

Thanks Little Chicken - yes its a busy period, beginning of August is when the doctors start their jobs, so July is paperwork dealing to get them ready to come into the hospital and August is dealing with more paperwork and their induction period, payroll, checking work permits etc etc.

I do see why they need staff around to do this, but i feel its so unfair not to have told me before I took the job. They are also understaffed which is probably a factor too.

ohreally

Look at sec 35 under your terms and conditions of service (Balancing work and personal life).

Involve your shop steward if necessary.

Doodles

ohreally wrote: »

Look at sec 35 under your terms and conditions of service (Balancing work and personal life).

Involve your shop steward if necessary.

Thanks for this - that's really interesting because I only have my contract letter stating terms and conditions of service, which only goes up to para 33! However I've just done a google search and found the booklet you are referring to - strange they have never given me a copy of that actually. I'm going to have a read of it. Thanks so much for drawing my attention to it.

CFC

Employers are allowed to have holiday bans for operational reasons. However, as you work in the public sector, they may have a different policy.

But as your main problem appears to be that you wouldn't have taken the job if you'd known, and they have agreed to honour dates this year, then surely it's not a problem anyway as you will have a year to find work which is more suited to your need for holiday flexibility?

londondulwich

You are not entitled to demand when your holidays take place, although you are entitled to a fixed period of holiday time each year. The requirement is that you ask at least two weeks in advance of each week you want free. So if you wanted to take a month off, you'd need to ask two months before.

If your son was disabled and needed care, you could ask the managers to re-consider their decision.

You can request unpaid leave in crisis situations, like being called in by the school, or having to administer injections etc.

If you made requests in these circumstances the managers have to take them seriously and show that they dealt with them reasonably.

Otherwise, you can simply make the request, best to do this in writing, but they can refuse without trying to accommodate you or consider alternatives.

Doodles

Oooooooohhhh wrote: »

and tbh using a kid who will be at least 13 by this time next year as an excuse is a bit convenient to me, how many 13 YO's these day need constant care unless injured/disabled? None

Eh? are you saying that a 13 year old should be completely unsupervised for a whole 2 weeks then? I like to consider myself a responsible parent, not one who lets their child roam the streets for a couple of weeks because I can't get time offf work! :rolleyes:

I find the using the 'kid as an excuse' comment rather unhelpful.

But yes, I agree that I do have a year before this problem starts to hit and no doubt I will have to look for another position. But I still feel the employer is at fault here for not mentioning it before. Its made me learn a lesson though - to ask more questions before accepting a new position!

cazziebo

Yes , they can do this. Employees in retail etc are often banned from annual leave in december and during sale times. Some factories force all employees to take holidays at the same time.

However, it's very bad practice not to make this clear during the recruitment process - unforgivably bad. I might be being cynical here but to ban leave during July and August means that effectively parents will not take the job. They'll know this and by keeping it quiet means they can still get the numbers in.

And, as I see it, the issue isn't about childcare, it's about family holiday time. If an employee with a school age can't take leave during July or August, then the result is that they can't have a family summer holiday.

I would raise the fact that none of this was mentioned at interview, tactfully at first, but perhaps raising it as a formal grievance if you get no joy that way. It is a bit of a bad start to a new job but they were in the wrong.

Good luck with it. this kind of poor behaviour on the part of employers makes me cringe.

Valli

And if you applied to take your child out of school for a holiday then the school could mark him down for unauthorised absence.

Join, and involve a union. I wouldn't leave a 13 yr old unsupervised either - good luck with it.