Vulnerable adult needs help!

veryworriedmum

I wasn't sure where to post this so if it's in the wrong place please feel free to move it.

My son has severe MH problems and struggles with his finances but I feel that companies and banks etc are just taking advantage of his difficulty in understanding how things work :mad:

HSBC wrote to him this week to tell him they are applying almost £200 worth of charges next month for going overdrawn but he was under the impression that he had a £50 overdraft limit because they'd allowed him to go overdrawn to that extent the previous month. I don't know whether there was any agreement in place or not, he said the woman at the bank said this would be ok but it obviously isn't if they are applying charges. I told him to ring them and explain and ask for the charges to be dropped but they refuse point blank to do this.

If they take the charges then he will have nothing to live on (currently receives IS and DLA) so will end up not eating and become ill again, which hasn't happened before.

He's already paying out most of his income to pay off a huge BT bill (£600) and this is the second bill this year for such a huge amount. He continually uses 118 118 to request telephone numbers then asks the operator to connect him rather than dial it himself

Fortunately BT were willing to discuss the situation with me when I called them and have now placed call barring on his phone to prevent him running up anymore huge bills but he still has to pay off this bill before the next one is due

I've also found out that he has a contract with T-Mobile for a mobile internet contact and they've been taking money from his account every month but he doesn't even have a laptop to use it on, and never has had, and when I asked him why he had it he said he didn't know, he had called them to ask about how they worked etc so obviously they have somehow tricked him into a contract which they now say he has to pay over £700 to cancel :mad:

I've tried to talk to them about this but they refuse to discuss his account with me. Is there anything I can do abou this as I feel they have missold a contract and it will be obvious from his account that he has never used it. I told him to cancel the DD to stop them taking any more money but now they're just sending him threatening letters :mad:

I'm getting really worried about how he's going to manage and concerned that he will have no money left in his account to buy food and pay his gas/electric at this rate. This happened a couple of months ago due to having to pay the last BT bill and he went without food for almost a month as a result

How can I get these companies to talk to me and explain the situation to them? I'm so angry that they are basically taking advantage of a very vulnerable adult and they just don't give a damn :mad: :mad: :mad:

robpw2

your son could write to them asking for you to be added onto his acounts in order for you to discuss them with him.

Does he not have a carer or someone who could completely look after his finances.


As for is and dla have you thought about getting his money paid into your accont then he will not have the money taiken by barclays?

beasygirl

Having worked in a call centre, the only way any company will let you discuss an account on behalf of someone is if they gave their authorisation over the phone in your presence, or if your son wants to set up a password on each account he has. Due to data protection laws they cannot discuss anything with this authorisation. Hth

In regards to the rest of your post someone with more advice will read shortly.

sophiesmum_2

Firstly by law banks are not allowed to take benefits money directly from your bank as this is the minimum amount of money designated for a person to live on. Try the search thread there is a lot of info in a n earlier thread on here somewhere about this.
does your son have a social worker/key worker who you could approach for help? If not try contacting the central duty team at your local social services adult services team who may be able to sort him out with a support worker.
Regarding the accounts when you ring the companies if your son is with you and gives verbal permission to them on the phone then they will talk to you. He can also ring and ask for you to be included as a contact- usually with a password. A letter may be the best way to go forward with the internet problem, stating that he was missold the product and that he is mentally impaired and incapable of taking in information and making such decisions. They may agree to cancel the contract on those grounds.
as a final idea, you could write to the credit reference agencies and ask them to put a note on his file to not allow credit contracts due to his mental incapacity - most companies will run a credit check before agreeing to contracts etc.
Good luck sorting everything out.

sophiesmum_2

this is the info from the thread;
It was posted by ben-e-fit on 22/09/2006 if you want to look it up.

Bank taking your Benefit? Quote this -
Social Security Administration Act 1992
Miscellaneous
Certain benefit to be inalienable **

187- Subject to the provisions of this Act, every assignment of, or charge on-
(a)benefit as defined in section 122 of the Contributions and Benefits Act;
(b)any income-related benefit; or
(c)child benefit,
and every agreement to assign or charge such benefit shall be void; and, on the bancrupcy of the beneficiary, such benefit shall not pass to any trustee or other person acting on behalf of his creditors.

** inaliable = not to be forfeited.

---

Basically they can't take you benefit money for overdrafts or debts, and if they have you can ask for it back !

elsien

I remember reading an article in a paper about a mum in a similar situation - unfortuntely I can't remember which one.
I think the difficulty is that people's ability to manage money can vary with their illness, so putting a blanket ban on giving credit to someone is vey difficult and possibly illegal under the mental capacity act.
I would suggest that as a starting point you contact one of the mental health charities such as MIND who will have come across this before and may be able to offer advice.
I think the woman in the paper had to write to each company individually explaining the situation and asking for redress, and the result varied between companies. Go higher up the chain rather than through call centres. With HSBC, I would definitely contact the bak manager yourself, (get your son to give his permission in writing if you can.)

Be careful of being added on to your son's accounts in case it makes you liable for his debts. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to stop someone applying for (and getting) credit, even if they are on benefits and don't understand what they are doing. Putting his name on the mailing and telephone preference services so that he doesn't get all the junk mail with the enticing offers might help a bit.
Good luck, but I do think you might be in for a bit of a long battle with this one.

Just found this on the Mind website, which might be useful to throw at them.
"However, if you feel you have been unfairly treated or that you can no longer fulfil an agreement you made when your judgement might have been affected by poor mental health, you may have a legal right of redress.
Freda has a diagnosis of bipolar affective disorder and is currently receiving treatment in hospital. Shortly before admission she spent a considerable sum on buying a new car which she cannot afford. She says she would not have signed the paperwork had she been well .
At these times, you need expert advice to see if you have entered into a legally binding contract. The law says that a contract may not be enforceable if you did not have the mental capacity to enter into the arrangement when you did, and the other party to the contract knew or ought to have known, that you lacked capacity. There are special rules that relate to contracts for necessaries (food, drink, clothing, essential services and so on) which mean that you have to pay a reasonable price for them, even if you entered into the contract without the necessary capacity."

There's also this free advice line which may help. The site is new to me, but looks to have lots of useful information for people with mental health difficulties and their families.
http://www.rethink.org/how_we_can_help/advice_service_and_information/index.html

fermi

sophiesmum wrote: »

Basically they can't take you benefit money for overdrafts or debts, and if they have you can ask for it back !

Unfortunately (rightly or wrongly) most banks tend to ignore that bit of legislation.

It may be better to use a "first right of appropriation" over the payments.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/c_banks_and_building_societies.pdf

Even if your account is overdrawn, you can choose how any further money you pay into the account is used (for example to pay your mortgage or rent). This is called first right of appropriation. You'll need to write to them with new instructions each time you make a deposit.

Every time a payment is to be made into the account you need to inform the bank in advance that it is to be used for essential payments, listing what they are. At least in theory you should be able to demand the money then even with the OD. In practice some banks can still be difficult even after this.

Your Bank,
Address
Date

Dear Sir/Madam,

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

RIGHT OF APPROPRIATION

I am writing to inform you that I am due to have a Tax Credit payment of £xxx paid into my account on xx/xx/xx, and I wish to use my first right of appropriation for this money, for the following purposes;

Rent £xx
Utilities bills £xx
Housekeeping money £xx

I will withdraw the money on the day that it is deposited for the above use, and I would be grateful if you would ensure that any other payments out of my account do not interfere with this withdrawal.

Yours faithfully,

[signature]

[print name)

chevalier

I think you really need to take legal advice about this. Two reasons, I can't remember what the services is called but it is run by the social services and it is meant to protect the financial affairs of vulnerable people. Secondly if he agrees he can sign a form to make you have power of attorney. You would then send a copy to these companies and then they could talk to you that way.
I definitely think a trip to the CAB is required on two counts
1) the mobile internet contract
2) I believe that banks cannot take benefit money for charges. I think it is to do with the thought that benefits are the minimum that you can survive on or something. I know there is someone on here who can help with this, but I hope this gives you a few pointers
chev

joolz43

The department in social services for vulnerable adults is called POVA (protection of Vulnerable Adults), however as the last post says, the CAB might be a good starting place.

veryworriedmum

Thank you very much to all of you for your great advice and help! :A

I didn't know that the banks weren't allowed to take benefit money to pay off bank charges so that's a huge relief. We're going to tackle HSBC about this today and hopefully try and get some, if not all, the charges dropped although i won't hold my breath!

My son has actually opened another current acc elsewhere which I didn't know when I posted yesterday so the plan is to have his benefit money transferred to that account instead so it will at least give him some breathing space to tackle the other stuff. DLA are also going to start paying him weekly rather than monthly to help him budget better.

Things have progressed with T-Mobile after he called them yesterday to request they speak to me about his account. They've now cancelled his contract with no further charges due and even admitted to him that he shouldn't have been sold the contract in the first place as they don't even have any internet coverage where he lives!!!!! :mad:

Next step is to tackle them about the money they've already taken from him and see if we can get that refunded. I wonder whether threatening court action might produce results

I think once we get past this sticky patch and get everything sorted out he will probably be ok. I'm going to draw up a budget spreadsheet so he knows who he's got to pay and when, and how much he has left for food shopping and to spend etc. He's already involved with MIND and lives in one of their supported housing projects so they already collect money from him weekly to pay toward electric/gas/water so I don't have to worry about that.

Someone mentioned getting a power of attorney and this is something we have discussed but I don't want to take away all his independance otherwise he's never going to learn how to cope with these things. At least at this stage anyway, but we'll certainly look into having me added as a contact on his bank accs etc, will need to do that with HSBC anyway so I can try sort out the mess he's in with them but also the new one too and hopefully prevent him running into problems again. BT have already added me as a contact on that acc and will ring me if there's any problems with his bills in future.

At least there's light at the end of the tunnel in getting all this sorted now as yesterday I felt in such despair not knowing what to do, so thank you so much for all your help :A

veryworriedmum

Oh there was something else I forgot to ask. He has an AOL broadband account on an 18mth contract I think, but isn't currently using it since he moved into his present accommodation (no PC) but is still paying for it and can't cancel as it has about a year left to run. Can he ask them to freeze the contract until such time he might need it again?