Threating letter from CIQ Ltd Debt Collectors?

RAS

Hi

If this load of pond scrappings are still causing your daughter grief despite the fact that they have failed to produce anything that suggests that the debt is not statute barred, then they are equally unlikely to take notice of the CCA request that has been suggested,

I would suggest a very stern letter to the pond life quoting the relevant sections of the OFT Guidelines page 13 from memory , linked in rog2's post above, demanding that they cease haressment, copied to the Trading Standards nearest their office and the OFT.

To give you and idea of the situation nationally, since the OFt acquired a few teeth earlier this year, they have wriiten to 25% of DCAs advising them that their practices are unacceptable in some way.

If they come back again, please ask your daughter to ring NDL again, but feel free to come here to support and a bit of TLC.

fultime

Hi after sending the last letter my daughter has had a reply saying they got the recorded letter but the £1 postal order was missing!! so they can't send her the information she needs, they suggest she contacts hfc and ask them for the information, but I have told her not to. She has been in contact with Trading Standards but the guy who she was dealing with at the local office told her he can't help her for two weeks as he is away on holiday!! So not much help from him, he suggested sending the standard letter but she has already done that to no avail. She has sent one more letter by recorded delivery, pasted below, this is making her ill, is costing her time and money with the letters and recorded deliverys and it seems that nothing is being resolved. It is becoming a bit of a nightmare now and I don't know what to suggest to her to help her.

Her latest letter.
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]

Aug 7th, 2008

Complaints Department
C:IQ Ltd
21, St Thomas Street,
Bristol,
BSI 6JS


Dear Sir/Madam,
Account No: 1ST1358

You have contacted me for the third time regarding the account with the above reference, which you claim is owed by myself.
I would like to point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to HFC BANK.
I recently sent you a letter, by recorded post, with a one pound postal order attached , requesting the agreement and break down of the supposed debt, which you have replied to, but state that you did not receive the postal order. I fail to understand this as it was attached to the letter?
I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.
I would also point out that the OFT say under the guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable.
If you intend on ignoring or disregarding claims that debts are disputed and continue to make unjustified demands for payment, this can amount to physical/psychological harassment.
Perusing this without supplying any agreement or break down of this debt yourselves is illegal, thus I have made a formal complaint about your conduct to Trading Standards.
I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed.
I look forward to your reply.

Yours Faithfully





[/FONT]

rog2

fultime wrote: »

Hi after sending the last letter my daughter has had a reply saying they got the recorded letter but the £1 postal order was missing!! so they can't send her the information she needs, they suggest she contacts hfc and ask them for the information, but I have told her not to. She has been in contact with Trading Standards but the guy who she was dealing with at the local office told her he can't help her for two weeks as he is away on holiday!! So not much help from him, he suggested sending the standard letter but she has already done that to no avail. She has sent one more letter by recorded delivery, pasted below, this is making her ill, is costing her time and money with the letters and recorded deliverys and it seems that nothing is being resolved. It is becoming a bit of a nightmare now and I don't know what to suggest to her to help her.

Her latest letter.

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Aug 7th, 2008[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Complaints Department[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]C:IQ Ltd[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]21, St Thomas Street,[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Bristol,[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]BSI 6JS[/FONT]


[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Dear Sir/Madam,[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Account No: 1ST1358[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]You have contacted me for the third time regarding the account with the above reference, which you claim is owed by myself.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]I would like to point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to HFC BANK.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]I recently sent you a letter, by recorded post, with a one pound postal order attached , requesting the agreement and break down of the supposed debt, which you have replied to, but state that you did not receive the postal order. I fail to understand this as it was attached to the letter? [/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]I am familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it is unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]I would also point out that the OFT say under the guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]If you intend on ignoring or disregarding claims that debts are disputed and continue to make unjustified demands for payment, this can amount to physical/psychological harassment.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Perusing this without supplying any agreement or break down of this debt yourselves is illegal, thus I have made a formal complaint about your conduct to Trading Standards.[/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. [/FONT]
[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]I look forward to your reply.[/FONT]

[FONT=times new roman, new york, times, serif]Yours Faithfully[/FONT]

They certainly are persistent little so and sos - aren't they.

Did your daughter record the number of the Postal Order? In which case, she would be able to see when, and where it was cashed.

The worst case scenario would be to send another letter, with a £1.00 Postal Order and to get a witness to say that he/she saw the PO being sealed in the envelope, if they 'try it on again'.

RAS

Hiya

Try contacting the Trading Standards nearest these bleeders office and if they are part of the CCA, then send them a missive as well.

Office of Fair Trading, Contact page: http://www.oft.gov.uk/contactus

The Information Commissioners Office, Complaints page: http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx
(note: I chose to complete and download the .pdf form on Data Protection, which I am also sending to the other offices, with an accompanying letter)

Trading Standards, Central office homepage: http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/
-Please note, you can search by inserting the postcode in the top right hand corner, remember to use the postcode of the DCA rather than your own-

Consumer Credit Association, enquiries page: http://www.ccauk.org/consenquiries.htm

You could also consider copying the letter to her MP?

fultime

Thanks to you all, will try what you suggest. She did ask in the post office about tracking the postal order but they said they can't do that for at least 3 months. Yes they are very persistant and its really getting her down now, we have just lost our parents and we could do without all of this stress, she is grieving for her grandparents, working, looking after a 2 year old and trying to deal with these scum bags. Should she just ignore any further letters from them do you think or will that put her in the 'wrong' position? She has never had any debts, never had credit cards, has a clean credit reference and has been paying a mortgage for years, she and her partner work hard and pay there taxes so I don't think they would get very far with this 14 year old debt if they did take her to court would they? Thats if it is what she thinks it may be from all those years ago as of course they haven't actually told her what they are asking for money for!

fultime

They have replied yet again stating that by quoting the statute rule she is acknowledging that she knows the debt is older than 6 years so she is admitting that she owes the money if she knows that. They have told her to cancel the orginal post order and send them another and they will get the information on the debt to her 'as soon as it is sent to them from the original debtor'. We have tried everything that has been suggested, re sending letters contacting Trading Standards and nothing at all is being resolved, it is just going on and on and on. I contacted the Trading Standards in there area as you suggested but they have replied that they can't deal with it as it has to be in the area of the consumer, we have tried out own Trading Standards and they didn't seem very interested and said they were on holiday for two weeks but have never got back to us. We are willing to try anything to get these awful people off her back but we don't know what else we can do?

rog2

fultime wrote: »

They have replied yet again stating that by quoting the statute rule she is acknowledging that she knows the debt is older than 6 years so she is admitting that she owes the money if she knows that. They have told her to cancel the orginal post order and send them another and they will get the information on the debt to her 'as soon as it is sent to them from the original debtor'. We have tried everything that has been suggested, re sending letters contacting Trading Standards and nothing at all is being resolved, it is just going on and on and on. I contacted the Trading Standards in there area as you suggested but they have replied that they can't deal with it as it has to be in the area of the consumer, we have tried out own Trading Standards and they didn't seem very interested and said they were on holiday for two weeks but have never got back to us. We are willing to try anything to get these awful people off her back but we don't know what else we can do?

They are literally showing complete disregard, and utter contempt, for every rule in the book, ft:

1. By quoting the 'Statute Barred' legislation, she is not acknowledging anything other than the fact that it has been more than six years since either she made a payment towards, or acknowledged in writing, the 'debt'. Whether or not the 'debt' exists is immaterial as the 'limitation period' makin the 'debt' statute barred is a complete and acceptable defence under British Law. She simply needs to tell them that she does not intend to pay this 'debt' as it is 'statute barred'. Let them try to take her to court - she has a complete defence.
2. She does not need to 'cancel' the Postal order - or, in fact, to do ANYTHING. She requested a true copy of the original executed cca. Providing that she has a copy of the letter, with details of when it was received, the number of the PO (that's ALL she needs) then these people are legally obliged to provide her with a true copy of the cca within 12 working days of her request. It matters not one bit that they have to go back to the original creditor - that is their problem and they must still provide her with the cca, whether they were the original creditor or not. Failure to do so, within the prescribed legal period, renders this already uncollectable debt, or any agreement relating to it, unenforceable without permission of the courts.

I am totally amazed at the attitude of the Trading Standards - have you spoken with National Debtline - 0808 808 4000, CCCS - 0800 138 1111 or your local CAB?

If not, I urge you to do so as soon as possible.

fultime

Hi again you must be getting as fed up with this as we are. Yes we too are surprised at Trading Standards but after watching a tv prog about illegal clampers last night Trading Standards were not interested in that either so I'm not sure what good they are to anyone really. She has also filled out a complaint form on the site of the credit association this company are proud members of. Yes National Debtline have been very good and helpful with the standard letters and information, she rang them again and they have basically said what you are saying re they have 12 days to send out the information, if they don't then evidently they must send her a letter stating that this matter is now closed, I can't imagine them doing that though but we will see. Thanks again for all your help and advice, I won't bother you with this anymore until or if there is a conclusion of some kind to the problem, one way or the other. What a terrible company and this has shown us just how much these companys can get away with and also that anyone of a weaker disposition would not be able to fight the bullying tactics they have shown, unfortunately for them we will not lie down and pay up but I'm sure there are many unfortunate people out there who have done and will do in the future because there isn't much help out there against these bully boys.

rog2

fultime wrote: »

Hi again you must be getting as fed up with this as we are.
I won't bother you with this anymore until or if there is a conclusion of some kind to the problem, one way or the other.

Hi fultime - please do not think, for one moment, that we are getting fed up - maybe we are a bit 'fed up' at the way these 'criminals' are treating your daughter, but certainly not fed up of you asking for advice.
In fact we would be most upset if you decided not to keep us informed at every stage. :rolleyes:

Good luck, fultime - your daughter is very lucky to have a mum like you. :A

fultime

Hi Rog
Thanks for the last post. I can't believe I am still on here asking for advice nearly 3 months on but unfortunately I am. I have tried all avenues suggested by you lovely people on here but we are just not getting anywhere with it. We have received a letter from CSA this morning who we complained to about CIQ Ltd as they are registered on there site, they are saying that they are behaving correctly and that it dosn't matter how long it takes for them to get the evidence and that there requesting my daughter to telephone them and 'come to an agreement' to pay or be taken to court is within there guidelines? I have pasted my reply to them below. We have filled out a complaint form to the Financial Ombudsman today to see if they can do anything, I just don't know what else to do now. It truly is a nightmare!


Dear Mr Bell,

I am very dissapointed in your response to my daughter re the complaint against your member CIQ Ltd which she received this morning.
In your email to me (below) you stated that this investigation would be finalized this week but your letter has not finalized anything and has just left the situation as it was! You state in your letter to her that the debt is not statute barred but how can you justify such a statement when she has not been given any evidence of what this debt is and when it occured? She has repeatedly asked for evidence and we have been legally informed that this information has to be acquired by law at the time the debt is taken over by another company, obviously this is not the case with CIQ, we have also been informed that this information has to be given within a time period of 6 weeks, which again, has not happened. You state that CIQ have requested the information from the creditor but they should already have this information!! You also state that this can take some time, but we are not interested in how long it takes them to acquire information they should already hold as that is an empty statement and this could go on for years if such a thing was legal, which it is not, this has gone on far longer than the 6 weeks that they should have produced the information required. They are acting illegally and you are allowing this, what is the point of having a complaints procedure when you choose to ignore the complaints and continue to allow your member to act in an illegal and unproffessional way? We have been legally informed that a company is not allowed to try to procure money over the telephone but they have done this and they are still trying to get her to telephone them and extort money from her for a debt she has no knowledge of, has no evidence of, no date of, etc etc, this is a ridiculous situation as no one in there right mind would pay a company money for something they have no evidence of owing. They state that they have evidence that she does owe this money, so where is this evidence and why are they not sending it to her?
We have now completed a complaints form to the Financial Ombudsman in the hope that as you cannot resolve this issue they will be able to one way or the other so that this nightmare for her can be put to rest once and for all.
You have shown the utmost contempt for her position despite the fact that I have informed you of our recent bereavements and her pregnancy, the stress of this 'mystery debt' that she is being bullied into paying with no evidence to support it, has caused her illness which has been recorded by her GP.

I note that you sign the letter to her as Junior Compliance Ex, perhaps you would be so kind as to forward my emails and the complaint against CIQ to a more senior member of staff.

Yours sincerely

Dear

Thank you for your recent correspondence with my colleagues. We are currently looking into your complaint and expect our investigations to be finalized within the next week.

If there are any problems we will contact you to keep you informed of progress.

Regards

Robert Bell
Compliance Administrator

CSA - Serving the credit industry - www.csa-uk.com
Tel: (UK) 0191 286 5656 Fax: (UK) 0191 286 0900