Bleeding Radiators? Needed? Why? How?

moneysavingplumber

innovate wrote:

I recently had a radiator moved (by a qualified heating engineer), and it took several days of bleeding for the air to all escape from the system. I surely wouldn't pay for an engineer to come for the daily bleeding!

I have a big Bosch Worchester combi-boiler, and whilst it is not obvious where the top-up valve is and the instruction manual doesn't mention it (and also not that the system must only be topped up by a competent engineer), I asked the engineer who moved the radiator 1) where the valve is, and 2) what pressure the boiler should be set to. Armed with this information, it's now not beyond my wits (even though I am blonde ) to bleed my radiators.

This doesn't bear relevance to the original post, which related to bleeding periodically for no apparent reason other than someone advising it was necessary. Where work has been carried out it is the recommissioning engineer's responsibility to ensure the system is in full working order, it should not be left to the householder to bleed and top-up the system, the price should have made a provision for this, even if it means a few flying visits by that engineer.

If the system is ingressing air periodically, it needs to be investigated and rectified or it will lead to corrosion and further cost, simply bleeding it off and topping-up will not address the overall problem.

Topping up the system pressure isn't complicated per se, but neither are alot of other things that we do in the trade of themselves, it's the wider implications of that action that may cause problems without the relevant knowledge and experience.

Older boilers literature will not mention using a competent engineer to top up system pressure, newer ones will tend to, as over-pressurising may cause the system to 'dump' the pressure when hot leaving the user in the same situation, with boiler in lock-out mode. There may also be causes of the drop in pressure that may present a danger that will not be obvious to users, such as weeping components within the boiler casing (common on early Baxi 130HE models) that may be at risk of dripping onto electrical parts. An engineer advising you on how to do it will not be accountable if you make a mistake and cause further problems to your system or leave a potentially hazardous situation. If the recommissioning engineer prices for and carries out the work then he or she will be.

moneysavingplumber

starlite wrote:

well...i don't think anyone reading my post would take my word for it and go ahead and end up ruinibng their system.
there was no call for such a shirty response.
I just wanted to add my experience. In this case the flat had been empty for almost a year before we bought it- not sure if that contributed to it- and the plumber certainly did nothing more than bleed the radiator. the problem was then resolved. whether he was fair to charge such an amount for that is another matter of course.

Sorry if you thought it was shirty, I don't set out to offend people, but in fairness you actually gave contradictory advice as opposed to just adding experience. I wanted to make it clear why I thought the advice was totally misplaced.

If your flat had been empty for a year most professionals would agree that the bolier would require recommissioning and checking professionally anyway, especially if the gas and water supplies had been turned off at anytime. If you had mentioned that aspect of the situation in your original post then the lack of relevance to the OP's situation, whereby someone had simply advised them to do it as a matter of course, would have been more obvious and I may not have responded at all.

Regards,

Dave.

innovate

I am sorry, moneysavingplumber/Dave, whilst I don't doubt your competency when it comes to boilers and heating systems, you appear to be trying to convey that everything to do with [combi-?] boilers and heating systems is beyond people who aren't qualified heating engineers. That's not convincing - at least, it doesn't convince me. I wouldn't dream of accepting a quote that includes repeat visits to bleed radiators.

moneysavingplumber

innovate wrote:

I am sorry, moneysavingplumber/Dave, whilst I don't doubt your competency when it comes to boilers and heating systems, you appear to be trying to convey that everything to do with [combi-?] boilers and heating systems is beyond people who aren't qualified heating engineers. That's not convincing - at least, it doesn't convince me. I wouldn't dream of accepting a quote that includes repeat visits to bleed radiators.

Well that's fair enough but if that is the case then you are effectively saying that you are happy for a plumber to leave work unfinished, which is one of the biggest irritations that people report about tradespeople. If the system is still half-full of air then it is not left in an acceptable condition for the end-user. Whilst you may be savvy enough to deal with it, little old Mrs. Jones who's 85 may not be, and neither are half the burly blokes I come accross day to day, and nor should they be if being looked after by a true professional that is happy to finish the work that they have been paid for, which is why the manufacturers instigated the Benchmark programmes as such a large proportion of warranty call-outs to new boiler 'faults' are the result of incomplete or incorrect commissioning, and result in the customer being charged for the manufacturer's visit. You are at liberty to check my viewpoint with the manufacturers, Corgi and The Institute of Plumbing and Heating Engineering. I set out clearly some of the problems that may result in non-competent persons affecting even simple maintenance and am not interested in trying to convince the sceptical, but it would be irresponsible of me not to make the point. Whether or not you're convinced by what I say isn't relevant in the greater scheme of things, crosscheck what I've said with the corresponding authorities and manufacturers and you will find, notwithstanding minor discrepancies, overall it is correct.