Cheque Clearance Times

natweststaffmember

2 4 6 is not a Law it is a process of cheque clearance before we have an almighty hoo ha. EDIT: there is also 2 6 6 which is a PROCESS not a Law. There is no law that governs the clearing of cheques.
I guess the practice in NatWest Bank needs to be explained, so I will explain what we do and not comment on others.
We understand the 2 4 6 so, here is the practice in context when someone comes into the branch. If it is day 4 the person can withdraw up to £5k using chip and pin, and up to £1k without a pin number. However £5k and £1k exactly and above require secondary identifiction, passport or driving licence.
As f1 has stated the branch manager has discretion on day 4 to 6. In reality day 4 is definitively NO and day 5 is definitively NO and day 6 is usually NO. That is the reality on the ground. We work on Certainty of Fate for large cash withdrawals.

silentscream999

natweststaffmember wrote: »

2 4 6 is not a Law it is a process of cheque clearance before we have an almighty hoo ha. EDIT: there is also 2 6 6 which is a PROCESS not a Law. There is no law that governs the clearing of cheques.
I guess the practice in NatWest Bank needs to be explained, so I will explain what we do and not comment on others.
We understand the 2 4 6 so, here is the practice in context when someone comes into the branch. If it is day 4 the person can withdraw up to £5k using chip and pin, and up to £1k without a pin number. However £5k and £1k exactly and above require secondary identifiction, passport or driving licence.
As f1 has stated the branch manager has discretion on day 4 to 6. In reality day 4 is definitively NO and day 5 is definitively NO and day 6 is usually NO. That is the reality on the ground. We work on Certainty of Fate for large cash withdrawals.

sorry i may have misunderstood but why ask for secondary ID on 1K withdrawals ? but then allow upto 5K with just chip and pin ?

i must say though, 5K with no advanced notice and no other ID is pretty impressive....a magnet for fraudsters!

natweststaffmember

Which is why I had no choice but to post because f1 stated branch discretion which is none in spite of what telephone arm of natwest say. technically its £999.99 without PIN number(natwest work on CHIP and PIN) and £4999.99 with the PIN number. However, the bank can and do ask for additional identification on amounts below the 1k limit. AND I suspect they may do if someone asked for £4999.99.

f1widow

REGARDING NATWESTSTAFF MEMBER's POST - am i right in saying you have stated in one of your posts that you can withdraw £1K or £5K on day 4 ???? ie I can take my card (chip and pin) go into the branch and have £5k ??? (sorry if i sound dim!)

What is considered large cash withdrawals?????

Also to put a spanner in the works day 4 should Friday not be day 5 - therefore day 4 is today??? (ie Thursday) - I spoke to the ombudsman day 1 is Monday (so long as paid in before and wait for this my bank are not sure whether its actually 2.30 or 3.30 as different staff will tell you different times)

And please dont get me on the subject of ID - thats another story (told the bank i was very unhappy with the misinformation - not being allowed money until Monday etc etc when terms state Friday etc etc and wanted to close account (now im sure this will ruffle some feathers ha ha) i wait until cheques are cleared - then i fill in form - then they could if they wanted to give me a cheque for the balance of my account (A CHEQUE AAAAAGGGHHHHH) only if i produce the right ID ie passport full driving licence and utility if i dont have them my closure will be refused - they were happy to open account with only provisional licence, no passport and utility - but i cant close without (apparently they should have given other options but as usual they didnt!!!)

Sorry i must point out im the wife (who now has a bad name with bank!) who is trying to sort on behalf of husband - we have joint account

So if Natweststaffmember could clarify the position re my first paragraph i would be very grateful

To all the other members who have posted many thanks for your help and understanding - i really appreciate that so many of you are shall we say "with me" on this one - but if so many are of the same understanding does this mean banks are not being clear on their terms ???

WestonDave

Sounds to me like there are two issues here that are being confused.

Firstly under 2-4-6 the money should be available without question or quibble for withdrawl on Friday (sometimes its deemed to be "after day 4") if not Thursday unless the account was a savings account. If the bank were allowed to hold it until full fate clearance on day 6 there is no point in the 4 in the process. Incidentally whilst this is not law, it is an APACS members agreement which all member banks are expected to adhere to in full, and further was the price for avoiding tighter regulation from the OFT. If a bank is playing fast and loose with this then its a high risk strategy as it could open the whole issue of clearance back up to investigation.

There is however a second issue which appears to compound things. Many banks legitimately limit the amount of cash that can be withdrawn in one go unless prior notice is given or ID is provided etc. That will be in their individual terms (relates to security and site cash management etc) and may have some impact in a scenario where a large cheque is deposited and cash is required as the withdrawl. However the correct response from the bank is to inform the customer of the limits they can draw in cash not refuse to allow withdrawl against the cheque - the two things are entirely seperate. The bank in my view has firstly given wrong information and secondly poor service.

YorkshireBoy

WestonDave wrote: »

Firstly under 2-4-6 the money should be available without question or quibble for withdrawl on Friday (sometimes its deemed to be "after day 4")

I don't think that's correct. 'Cleared for fate' doesn't occur until day 6. If the cheque is large and/or the origin is questionable and/or the account holder is not 'known to branch', then the bank are entitled to hold funds until day 6...when they are sure everything's OK.

if not Thursday unless the account was a savings account.

Thursday?! I don't think the cheque clearing process can operate as quickly as that can it?

Savings accounts (or more accurately non-clearing [bank] accounts) operate on the 2-6-6 process.

For further information, see the link in post #4 (and also the FAQ on that site), the APACS site, et al.

WestonDave

Cleared for fate indeed does not occur until day 6, but the risk the bank is of losing the money having paid it out on day 4 and then not being able to get it back from the customer, is the price the banks paid for not making any substantive improvements to an archane process and avoiding serious OFT intervention in the banking market. Given that only 0.5% of cheques bounce it is unreasonable for a bank to insist on holding onto money when most cheque clearance is done within the 4 days stipulated.

If you can show me where in any of that documentation any opt out or exception is listed for high value amounts or unknown customers I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong but they are very unlikely to be there from my understanding of the origins of this agreement.

Bear in mind that most cheques will have arrived at the issuing bank on day 3 and any notification to the recieving bank can be made by day 4 not to clear the cheque. The additional 2 days are therefore an additional safety measure for the bank which allows them to reclaim against the customer for funds withdrawn against the small proportion of cheques that bounce after day 4 bearing in mind only 0.5% of all cheques bounce at all! The whole point is that it is unreasonable for the bank to stop people getting access to their money against such a small risk of a cheque bouncing and an even smaller risk that the bank can't subsequently recover the paid out funds from the customer.

natweststaffmember

f1, to clarify the post. Up to 1k can be done technically without a pin number(however I would expect them to ask for additional ID for lower amounts where the customer is not "known to branch staff"). Up to 5k is on CHIP and PIN alone, ie no addtional identification done on day 4.
To be clear on T+4. T is transaction day then add 4 working days, so monday is day T and friday is +4.

Large cash withdrawals would be above 1K with no known pin and above 5k on CHIP and PIN(that is where secondary identification is MANDATORY).

Hope that clarifies the post which I really would have preferred not to make but that is the reality on the ground. I am sure that there will be now be posts on the forum where this will be shown to be different no doubt(cannot legislate for that).

f1widow

natweststaffmember - your quoting the money being drawn etc on the Friday sounding as if this is definate with Natwest that they will let customers have money - is it just natwest or should other banks offer this ??? i didnt know whether the policy with Natwest was that they will always let customers have money (as an earlier post wrote that she/he was with Natwest and could have money on day 3 I think it was) and that other banks criteria was going to be or could be different.

to Westondave - i have read the terms and conditions over and over and cannot see where it actually says there are exceptions to the rule - although saying that im sure they will disagree and somewhere amongst all the "wherefor, where unto etc etc - look at clause 4.1.2 - stand on your head and think of the first number that comes into your head" they will say thats what it says - now im not stupid - passed olevel english english lit etc have worked in accounts been a pa for MD blah blah - but i still say these things are hard to understand -

i must tell you i have looked at a couple of other banks/building societies - from the Terms and Conditions of Nationwide Anglia the cheque clearing process is different if you hold a debit card or cash card with them - what is the country coming to!!! - they are going to discriminate against you if you only hold a cash card - what difference does it make - to me it just makes people who may have a basic bank account with cash card say because of financial difficulties or for what ever reason even more penalised - and that is just not on - i didnt think they could penalise you - oh boy is this making me mad - so the scenario is Mr A has a debit card banks with nationwide and has a cheque from Grabbit and Run - he can have his money on day 3/4 BUT Mr B has a cash card with nationwide and also has a cheque from Grabbit and Run and will have to wait longer for his money :mad: :mad: :mad:

im just so hacked off that the bank can say "money available Friday" time and time again but then effectively change their mind when it actually comes down to it - they have stated the branch is the one you should take notice of - whats the point of phone bank then - they have repeatedly changed their version - and the last lady i spoke to just said "i think you have misunderstood us and although the staff have all told you correctly it has been explained in varying ways" - well thats a good get out clause

well if i do stay with them (hmmmmmm) - from now on i will check everything with branch - boy are they gonna be fed up with me!!!!!!!!!!!

Just another note - i was advised by "reliable source" wouldnt want to drop them in it that if I or my husband went to another branch tommorow - didnt breath a word about arguements etc there is like a huge possibility that that branch will let me have money - bit late now - we have lost car we wanted to buy!!! -

................i think i opened up a can of worms with this one and judging by most peoples posts they all think or thought the same - ive never ever had this situation before -

.........and contrary to the staff at the bank that "its very out of character for large sums of money to be put into your account - we are only used to more, how shall we say minor cheque amounts going through" i/we have put large amounts in (well they are large to us!!) (and yes they did say this and many more "gems" - quite derogatory comments really) - if the branch have the discretion they would have actually looked at the cheque understood what i was saying ie this is an insurance claim cheque - i have a letter from solicitors to prove it blah blah it was not like it was just a "personal joe bloggs cheque"

Anyway ive looked at the rest of the forum and are joining you all on money saving, saving money etc - i think this is a great site and has really helped - and as my husband said was completely free unlike the therapy he thought he was going to have to pay for to get me over this problem with the bank. I think OH has been scared to come home this week due to the fact ive looked like this :mad: :eek: - many thanks for all your help and if natweststaffmember could just clear the top question up i would be grateful - ta

f1widow

natweststaffmember - your quoting the money being drawn etc on the Friday sounding as if this is definate with Natwest that they will let customers have money - is it just natwest or should other banks offer this ??? i didnt know whether the policy with Natwest was that they will always let customers have money (as an earlier post wrote that she/he was with Natwest and could have money on day 3 I think it was) and that other banks criteria was going to be or could be different.

to Westondave - i have read the terms and conditions over and over and cannot see where it actually says there are exceptions to the rule - although saying that im sure they will disagree and somewhere amongst all the "wherefor, where unto etc etc - look at clause 4.1.2 - stand on your head and think of the first number that comes into your head" they will say thats what it says - now im not stupid - passed olevel english english lit etc have worked in accounts been a pa for MD blah blah - but i still say these things are hard to understand -

i must tell you i have looked at a couple of other banks/building societies - from the Terms and Conditions of Nationwide Anglia the cheque clearing process is different if you hold a debit card or cash card with them - what is the country coming to!!! - they are going to discriminate against you if you only hold a cash card - what difference does it make - to me it just makes people who may have a basic bank account with cash card say because of financial difficulties or for what ever reason even more penalised - and that is just not on - i didnt think they could penalise you - oh boy is this making me mad - so the scenario is Mr A has a debit card banks with nationwide and has a cheque from Grabbit and Run - he can have his money on day 3/4 BUT Mr B has a cash card with nationwide and also has a cheque from Grabbit and Run and will have to wait longer for his money :mad: :mad: :mad:

im just so hacked off that the bank can say "money available Friday" time and time again but then effectively change their mind when it actually comes down to it - they have stated the branch is the one you should take notice of - whats the point of phone bank then - they have repeatedly changed their version - and the last lady i spoke to just said "i think you have misunderstood us and although the staff have all told you correctly it has been explained in varying ways" - well thats a good get out clause

well if i do stay with them (hmmmmmm) - from now on i will check everything with branch - boy are they gonna be fed up with me!!!!!!!!!!!

Just another note - i was advised by "reliable source" wouldnt want to drop them in it that if I or my husband went to another branch tommorow - didnt breath a word about arguements etc there is like a huge possibility that that branch will let me have money - bit late now - we have lost car we wanted to buy!!! -

................i think i opened up a can of worms with this one and judging by most peoples posts they all think or thought the same - ive never ever had this situation before -

.........and contrary to the staff at the bank that "its very out of character for large sums of money to be put into your account - we are only used to more, how shall we say minor cheque amounts going through" i/we have put large amounts in (well they are large to us!!) (and yes they did say this and many more "gems" - quite derogatory comments really) - if the branch have the discretion they would have actually looked at the cheque understood what i was saying ie this is an insurance claim cheque - i have a letter from solicitors to prove it blah blah it was not like it was just a "personal joe bloggs cheque"

Anyway ive looked at the rest of the forum and are joining you all on money saving, saving money etc - i think this is a great site and has really helped - and as my husband said was completely free unlike the therapy he thought he was going to have to pay for to get me over this problem with the bank. I think OH has been scared to come home this week due to the fact ive looked like this :mad: :eek: - many thanks for all your help and if natweststaffmember could just clear the top question up i would be grateful - ta