Peculiar noise something to do with hot water

purplepatch

Lately we've noticed a strange kind of groaning/howling noise whenever a hot water tap/shower is turned on. It sounds like it's coming from the pipes somewhere, it's hard to describe really.

Does anyone have any idea what it might be? We wondered if it might be some sort of airlock. No idea what we need to do about it. Reluctant to get a plumber out in case it ends up costing us an arm and a leg.

aliasojo

I recently had a similar issue. As soon as any hot tap was turned on, I got a droning/foghorn type noise.

I asked for advice on here as well as on tradesmen's forums and the general concensus was that the gas/air mix need adjusting.

It sounds as though the co2 levels are set incorrectly,only a problem on hw as it then fires at maximum rate

Perhaps you have the same problem?

bestyman

Plenty of good plumbers on here will help but think we need more info.
1. What type of water heater do you have, combi boiler, CH boiler and cylinder and tank or cylinder and tank with electric immersion heater?
2. Is it all taps or just one?
3. Does running cold tap at the same time stop it?

4.Try this if you can easily, turn mains stoptap off fully ( thats cold into house) . Turn on a hot tap. What happens??? ( NA if you have a combi)

Bestyman

purplepatch

aliasojo wrote:

I recently had a similar issue. As soon as any hot tap was turned on, I got a droning/foghorn type noise.

I asked for advice on here as well as on tradesmen's forums and the general concensus was that the gas/air mix need adjusting.



Perhaps you have the same problem?

Ah yes, that droning/foghorn noise you mention is a very good description of our noise.

Bestyman - I'm not sure re any of the answers (hopeless female, sorrry ) so will go away and check later today when I get a mo, and post back then.

Thanks

purplepatch

bestyman wrote:

Plenty of good plumbers on here will help but think we need more info.
1. What type of water heater do you have, combi boiler, CH boiler and cylinder and tank or cylinder and tank with electric immersion heater?
2. Is it all taps or just one?
3. Does running cold tap at the same time stop it?

4.Try this if you can easily, turn mains stoptap off fully ( thats cold into house) . Turn on a hot tap. What happens??? ( NA if you have a combi)

Bestyman

Right, typically I can't get the droning noise today no matter what I try :rolleyes:

It doesn't always happen, just intermittently so hard to diagnose. The answers I can give are

1 It's a CH boiler and cylinder and tank
2 All taps I'm fairly sure
3 Not sure, but as it also happens whilst power shower is running, I guess running cold water doesn't stop it
4 Have just tried that and hot water is running normally, but as I haven't managed to get the droning noise at all today yet I'm guessing that doesn't mean too much

We usually get the noise at least once a day

aliasojo

That was what happened with us. It started off happening now and then ( so wasn't there when I tried to show someone :rolleyes: ) and gradually got worse until it happened pretty much on every occasion the tap was turned on eventually.

purplepatch

aliasojo wrote:

That was what happened with us. It started off happening now and then ( so wasn't there when I tried to show someone :rolleyes: ) and gradually got worse until it happened pretty much on every occasion the tap was turned on eventually.

Yes, I think that's what's happening here too.

I seem to remember a groaning noise last winter too which was something to do with the heating I think, ie not happening when taps were turned on but when the CH sparked up. Only very occasional though.

What did you have to do to fix yours aliasojo? And dare I ask, how much did it cost?

bestyman

Hi,
From what you say Im 99% sure ( trust me Im a plumber ) that the noise is from the cold water tank. Although its called a cold water tank and contains cold water this is the tank that fills up the hot water cylinder so using hot water causes the cold water tank to empty ( hope you understand )
As the tank empties it fills up with cold water through a ball !!!! ( or float operated valve to be PC) , this is whats probably making the noise.
To test if this is so, when you hear the noise lift the arm up and see if the noise stops ( or turn water off as mentioned before).

If it is the cold water tank then this noise will have nothing to do with using the central heating, the central heating only warms up the water in the cylinder.

Once you are sure that this is the problem it can be solved by (try these in order )
Try turning the stoptap down a little ( some may say this is a bodge) or
Fit new ballvave or
in extreme cases fit a pressure reducing valve.

9/10 a ball valve will cure the problem. If you cannot fit one yourself they cost around £5 and half hours labour ( £35 - 70)

Bestyman

EDIT: I noticed that my post was automaticaly edited where I describe the float operated valve . It is really called a ball ( darent type it again) . ;o)

Look here if you don`t believe me .
http://www.thefreedictionary.com

moneysavingplumber

Bestyman,

I also found the auto edit doesn't like the word c - o - c - k when I tried do describe something as a c - o - c - k-up! The problem is, people always assume you've typed something worse!

Another remedy for water-hammer is a double-check valve fitted immediately after your incoming main stopcock followed by a mini expansion vessel, which relieves the shock of the ball-valve closing against a high-pressure main without the risk of affecting a loose jumper in the stopcock.

bestyman

Moneysaving plumber

I once bought a double check valve and it didnt work so I took it back to the merchants . He wouldn`t give me my money back- he said it was a non return valve .

Joking aside, you learn something everyday. I have never done that but can see how it would work. Would you still do that if the stoptap had a fixed jumper? Would you fit a pressure reducing valve sometimes?

The problem could be that a lot of older properties around here with lead mains or stoptap in a hard to get at place behind kitchen units. Could the DC valve be fitted elsewhere?

Dont suppose you know where I can get a cheap gold bidet mono with PUW, bristan type heads, tank fed?

Bestyman

moneysavingplumber

bestyman wrote:

Moneysaving plumber

I once bought a double check valve and it didnt work so I took it back to the merchants . He wouldn`t give me my money back- he said it was a non return valve .

Joking aside, you learn something everyday. I have never done that but can see how it would work. Would you still do that if the stoptap had a fixed jumper? Would you fit a pressure reducing valve sometimes?

The problem could be that a lot of older properties around here with lead mains or stoptap in a hard to get at place behind kitchen units. Could the DC valve be fitted elsewhere?

Dont suppose you know where I can get a cheap gold bidet mono with PUW, bristan type heads, tank fed?

Bestyman

Hi Bestyman,

That method I described is mandatory on most combi installations, as flushing a loo can fire the boiler via the diaphragm. I have used PRVs before also, but only if the pressure is obviously excessive, and I've also fitted Pegler Equlibrium ball-valves to CWSTs to cure the problem. The double-check has to go on prior to the shock-arrester and the arrangement could go anywhere between the source of the concussive closing and the stopcock. In theory a fixed jumper shouldn't have the same problems but I don't know if water company stopcocks have loose jumpers or not, so there would be another problem.

Is that Bristan 1901 style you're looking for? PTS are showing one in their catalogue with PUW, and they are not ceramic disc so low pressure should be fine. There's two Leeds PTS branches so I'm sure you know where to find them. Their item keyword is NBIDG. It ain't cheap though!