Houses in Multiple Occupancy Housing Acts

Trying2Save_3

We have a house that has multiple occupants and all of them have received notices to leave the property on 1 Oct (2mths notice). The house is also for sale with an Estate Agent. Our local Council is on our case as the tenants have been fighting amongst themselves. Anyway to cut a long story short, our council have now issued us with numerous letters asking for information and quoting the Local Government (misc provisions) act 1976 (section 16) The housing act 1985. If we supply the information they are requesting would they be able to put a lean on the house and claim money back when it has been sold? The also say they are preparing a schudule of works, to accompany a notice of intention to be served under section 352 of the Housing Act, relating to fire precautions. They also say they are going to pass the file to their legal services team. We know they have forced entry into into the house, but deny this and we cannot prove it. The house is not a dump, my husband is a carpenter and it was all newly decorated and renovated before the tenants moved in and wrecked it. They also say that it will soon be a legal obligation for houses in multiple occupation of 3 or more storeys that are occupied by 5 or more persons to have a licence. There are 4 tenants.

We are selling the house, the tenants have notices to quit - does anyone know why we have to comply with these acts? It seems pointless to us when we are selling, it doesn't make any sense to us. We are now wondering if we should instruct a solicitor. How can they impose these regulations on us when the tenants will be out in a couple months and hopefully we will have sold it. Can anyone please cast any light on this, we are tearing our hair out.


Thank you in advance.

GDB2222

Umm, you have acted illegally. HMOs have to satisfy fire regs. For obvious reasons. The council is entitled, indeed required, to get you to bring the property up to scratch. (We are not talking about decorations here, just basic safety.)

On the plus side: -
Fortunately, nobody has been hurt (yet). You are trying to get the tenants out, which may happen before the council get round to serving the notice on you requiring you to improve the property. I am not sure what happens if the tenants have all moved out by the time the notice is served, and the council MAY get off your back then.

This may all make the house unsaleable. Any notices like this would have to be disclosed to purchasers.

I think your best bet is definitely to take legal advice. The solicitor can negotiate with the council on your behalf, and he will add some authority to what you say. The fact that you have instructed a solicitor shows that you are serious.

Look at it from the council's point of view. They have caught you with the equivalent of your hand in the till. They will need some convincing that you genuinely are not going to do it all again once their back is turned.

I feel that you may be in more trouble than you realise.

Natelle_2

This link to the Housing Act 2004 might be of some help.

Part of your problem may turn out to be that the Regs for HMOs apply to the property whether it is currently occuppied or not if it is designed and/or laid out for HMO use. So although the current tenants will be leaving, you will still own the property. Until you sell the council will only have your word that you will not be putting tenants in, in the future.

Hope the link helps

sooz

Trying2Save wrote:

We know they have forced entry into into the house, but deny this and we cannot prove it. The house is not a dump, my husband is a carpenter and it was all newly decorated and renovated before the tenants moved in and wrecked it. They also say that it will soon be a legal obligation for houses in multiple occupation of 3 or more storeys that are occupied by 5 or more persons to have a licence. There are 4 tenants.

We are selling the house, the tenants have notices to quit - does anyone know why we have to comply with these acts? It seems pointless to us when we are selling, it doesn't make any sense to us. We are now wondering if we should instruct a solicitor. How can they impose these regulations on us when the tenants will be out in a couple months and hopefully we will have sold it. Can anyone please cast any light on this, we are tearing our hair out.


Thank you in advance.

sorry, don't understand...do you mean the 'tenants' are squatters, who forced entry? or the council forced entry? if the latter surely this is irrelevant - perhaps the tenants let them in.

have a look at the housing act 2004. if your place does fall under the catergory of HMO it will need a licence very soon, but the licence is totally seperate to HHSRS [health safety fire etc] obligations. if you are trying to sell, do not go ahead with getting the licence - if at all possible -, as many mortgage lenders do not lend to HMO's and the licence remains in place for 5 years. this will then make it much harder for you to sell.

however, you may well be required to comply with HHSRS now, as the building was not suitable for the number of people living there. you would also need to look at the old housing act, pre 2004, to see the details of what exactly you are not complying with. as the other poster says, it's not just a question of decor, but fire regs, such as self closing fire doors, wired in smoke alarms, extinguishers, escape routes, or even regs due to the size of rooms, number of bathrooms provided etc.

you say there are 4 tenants in the building. are any of them co-habiting, because then they count as one person and not 2. or if they are all related, then they would count as one household. this might make all the difference in it not being classed as an HMO - but these are the new rules from 2004 with new definitions of a 'household' .. 4 flat sharers, in 4 different beds, count as 4 households...does that make sense [well obviously no, it doesn't make sense to anyone but the government, but i mean do you understand their ludicrous non-logic?]

i am busy serving quite a few of my tenants notice, as those flatsharing are being somewhat unreasonable in refusing to sleep together in the light of new gov't regulations - even though i offered a bottle of wine and to set them up on dates.. [perhaps it is the new stealth married person's allowance or something?]....now i can only advertise those flats to married couples.

i would certainly talk to a solicitor.

and good luck

Eyesparky

This has to be a defining example of poor legislation. Anyone cynical would think that the primary aim of the Government was to dismantle the private Buy to Let market. One of their ministers did say a couple of years ago that the current "cottage industry" of small private landlords in this country was rediculous and that the Government would have to do something about it. I assume this is the Government's solution to their perceived problem. Perhaps their utopia revolves around a few Van Hoogstraten style private landlords controling the entire rental market.

The legislation is incredibly vague about what is required to comply with the HMO legislation, refering to prescribed hazards as laid down by a suitable Government department. I assume this leaves them plenty of scope to move the goal posts at will.

This is obviously going to hit the student and young professional rental market the hardest. In my area these are incredibly competitive markets where private rental property has seen a high level of investment in order to attract the best tenants. I can only think that using a sledgehammer to crack a nut like this is only going to lead to less choice and lower standards in the future.

Eyesparky

Sorry missed that this thread was from October .