Egg / Shoosmiths CCJ misery!

earthboundboy

Hi

I’ve posted a few times but not yet for myself – I’m wondering whether anyone here can offer some advice or share a similar experience with these people.

First a bit of background. We were the archetypal overspent couple this time last year. Consolidation loan begat consolidation loan. In January my wife was suddenly and unexpectedly made redundant. I took charge of the finances, spoke to the CCCS and started getting things sorted. We made the tiniest payments to creditors while my wife sought another job. When she got one, a proper offer was made to all creditors and the vast majority accepted.

Except for Egg. Not only was it nigh on impossible to establish any sort of dialogue with them before the offer was made, they at least seemed happy to bide their time while we got ourselves into a position to make a repayment offer.

Almost immediately after the offer was made, Shoosmiths (on Egg’s behalf) slapped a CCJ on us. We completed the forms, offered the same payment that would have been made through the CCCS and the court agreed this was fair. I set up a standing order to pay them each month and we hoped that would be that.

However, yesterday we received a letter from the solicitor which they sent in error (it should have been sent to the district court!). The District Judge had clearly asked Shoosmiths for details of all our unsecured creditors and they attached these details to the letter. This morning I called Shoosmiths and they say that they are applying for a charging order!!

The problem is, our current mortgage deal runs out in December and we’ve been trying to get a similar deal so we don’t have to reduce our payments to our creditors when the mortgage payment goes up (not easy when you have a shiny new CCJ on your record). With a charging order as well, we’d effectively have to borrow more to re-mortgage and there would presumably be a further adverse affect on our credit rating.

What I don’t understand is why they cannot take a holistic approach to this problem? The woman at Shoosmiths just said ‘Egg are not looking for instalments at this time, they are looking for repayment in full’, but I know they can’t force sale of the house as the CCJ is in my wife’s name and the mortgage is joint names. Also it would give Egg an unfair advantage over our other creditors (some of whom we owe more to than Egg). All the things I have read suggest that the court would not grant the charging order. So I have been speaking to Shoosmiths to appeal for some common sense but it’s just so frustrating! :mad:

Some numbers: Overall debt is about 50k, of which 15k is Egg’s. About 25k is with Yorkshire Bank (who have been wonderfully understanding and co-operative throughout) and the remainder is spread across 4 or 5 store and credit cards. We calculated £313 to offer to all creditors each month – Egg currently get £82 directly as per the CCJ, the rest is split fairly between the others.

I should also point out that we have been completely open and honest about our finances throughout. I haven’t ignored any correspondence from any of the creditors at any stage. I wrote to and phoned them for updates on my wife’s employment situation and when they could expect the CCCS offer to come through. I’ve done everything I can, in short, to find a route through this situation that is fair and manageable for all parties concerned.

Egg have been aggressive, have ignored correspondence from me, have failed to let me know what their intentions were, and have made no attempt at any stage to listen to what we have to say. The solicitors have fared little better – the woman at Shoosmiths is monosyllabic and guarded at all times, merely repeating the mantra that Egg have provided them with. It’s as if they think we have a secret stash somewhere and are just being obstinate or irresponsible, but that’s simply not the case! We have been anything but and if we were in a position to make the original contracted payments then we would! We have been so good this year – have not borrowed any more money (even the odd £20 from parents which we always used to), have set a budget and stuck to it, cut our costs right back etc.

Does anyone have any thoughts? Ideas? I would like to write to Egg direct but where do you find the right person to speak to?

Thanks in advance!

S

Jen_Jen_5

they should only be able to go for a ccj if you are in breach of a CCJ, so if the origional order was pay egg x amount per month and you have paid it then they cant get a ccj.

what was the origional order and have you called cccs yet?

earthboundboy

The court awarded a new 'Hybrid' order, which basically grants the lender the right to apply for a charging order at any time, regardless of whether payments are made to them or not (which of course they are).

I am writing to the head of customer relations at Egg. We've accepted our responsibilities and are trying to get ourselves back on track - they are just repeatedly trying to give themselves an advantage over our other creditors, or they think we're lying about our income and expenditure, or god knows really as they won't speak to me and nor will Shoosmiths.

It annoys me as we did have a good payment record with *all* our creditors until my wife lost her job. We were starting to struggle but everyone got paid. They don't seem to take that into account.

On Egg's website it says "Shark Free Zone"

earthboundboy

Jen_Jen wrote:

they should only be able to go for a ccj if you are in breach of a CCJ, so if the origional order was pay egg x amount per month and you have paid it then they cant get a ccj.

what was the origional order and have you called cccs yet?

Sorry, didn't actually answer your question! The order was for £82 a month, we paid two instalments via the CCCS and have now paid one direct to Shoosmiths by standing order.

I've put a call in to our counsellor at the CCCS so just waiting for her to call back.

I'm sure it will work out OK, but I am getting so stressed out about it!

Jen_Jen_5

unfortunately dont know much about the new hybrid orders but they are becoming more popular.

i would advise that you make sure you go to the hearing and show the DJ all you have done and the unreasonableness of Egg, the debt being in your name and house in joint names might help in that partner will be unable to get credit because of your charging order on the other hand both of you on CCCS plan so perhaps DJ wont go for it.

i wouldnt worry too much, like you say they wont get order for sale and so cant force you out of home, well worth going though to explain to the judge that egg are being unreasonable, they are getting their money, its all you can afford they dont need a charging order and so extra costs added to the debt because of this should be paid by them. if the CO is still made at least you will feel that you have had your say to somebody who matters - the DJ

CCCS will have an expert, and i know easier said than done, dont worry

Xbigman

These hybrid orders are a worrying development. Especially as this is the second one on this board and none of the regulars had heard of them 10 days ago!

From what I understand it appears that when a company applies for a CCJ against someone with property, and that someone does not go to court, the company gets the CCJ and also asks for the right to apply for a charging order later. As the someone is not there to object this is nearly automatic.

The answer appears to be to go to court and defend the CCJ. If you just fill in the paperwork thats no longer good enough, you have to be there. Think on this. Remember those computer generated letters where it said there had been no contact, even though there had? If their representitives at court stands up and say's they want the right to apply for a charging order later they could claim there was no contact unless you were there to disagree with that statement. The court would have to believe them.

Until more information becomes available then my advice to anyone is to ALWAYS go to court and defend every stage of every CCJ or liability order regardless of what you think might happen. If something comes up that you don't understand ask for an adjournment whilst you review the new development. The courts are often sympathetic and everyone I know who went to court themselves was glad they did.
Regards



X

earthboundboy

That's interesting actually - I acted on the advice of the CCCS when the actual CCJ forms came through.

It makes me furious that the slightest slip up in communication on our part is held against us yet the solicitors sent confidential documents to the wrong address by mistake and get away with it. Egg are a big business yet they don't have to worry about the legal fees as they get added on to what we already owe them. We can't afford legal advice of our own, even if we could would it be of any use when the law is so thoroughly biased in favour of businesses over individuals?

I get the feeling that Egg's business isn't doing very well, which is why they are pursuing their bad debts so aggressively.

I had an old Egg credit card that when closed down had a balance owing to me of £1. Perhaps I should pursue them through the courts for that?

System

earthboundboy wrote:

We can't afford legal advice of our own, even if we could would it be of any use when the law is so thoroughly biased in favour of businesses over individuals?

Hi

Have you tried Community Legal Service?

https://www.clsdirect.org.uk
Tel - 0845 345 4345

I had an old Egg credit card that when closed down had a balance owing to me of £1. Perhaps I should pursue them through the courts for that?

I'd worry about your debt to Egg first! When that's dealt with, then you can get your own back!

Send them a letter giving them the a/c number and ask them to refund the credit balance on the account in a cheque made out to you - but best to net it off against the debt you owe them.

If they say it's closed, you may have to send a copy of the last statement I guess.

Xbigman

You have my sympathies. It is pants that you have filled out the court forms and taken CCCS advice and still gotten caught out. I hope your post will help others to avoid this problem in future.

General advice for anyone getting any paperwork from a court.
Always ask for the hearing to be in your home area.
Always go to the hearing in person, even if you don't think you will have anything to say.
You don't need a solicitor to represent you or even legal advice as such, but take all your paperwork.
Show the court you have had contact with your creditor and tried to be reasonable.
If the creditors representative says anything you disagree with then tell the court you think they are wrong and say why.
Every time the court is asked for something by the creditors representative you can object. The creditors rep will have to respond with their reasons which very often are not valid. IE they commonly state you have not contacted them and evaded payment when in fact you have contacted them.
Regards




X

earthboundboy

The problem of getting them to acknowledge your correspondence is a tricky one. What I should have done is ensure that everything I sent to Egg was sent by recorded delivery. I did send some stuff via their online secure messaging system, but of course they control whether you can access that or not as it's tied in to your account.

They could perfectly easily deny knowledge of having received any communication from you at all *whatever* you did, and it's their word against yours. Even if stuff is sent recorded the fact that someone there has signed for it is no proof that the right department has received the letter.

Where I've communicated with the solicitors I've tried to use email wherever I can and in addition to speaking to them - that way I have evidence that I sent them specific information on a certain day. It doesn't confirm that they *received* the information, but surely the proof that I was making every effort to contact them is more important?