Have paid MBNA more than monthly amount still being charged for DD not going through

Codswallop

We have an MBNA account. We didn't use it for 2 years and then decided to use it again because of a promotional offer. This time around the DD that was once it place didn't work when they tried to take the money HOWEVER we have paid more than the monthly amount each month on time but not by the direct debit method. We are being charged £12.

Can we get a refund for the £12? and are they within their rights to charge us for a non-direct payment despite us paying more than the minimum amount on time each month?

Very grateful for any replies and what should be said to the telephone operator to get this refund.
Many Thanks

MarkyMarkD

I would have suggested that, yes, they are right to charge you, because if you ask them to collect a payment by DD, and then the DD bounces, that incurs a charge. Making a payment by other means doesn't affect the liability to a DD charge, but it would prevent you suffering other charges for failure to pay.

BUT A DD wouldn't be likely to work 2 years after it was last used. They normally expire after 13 months of non-use. You could validly argue that MBNA should have told you about this, and that it was their fault, and that they shouldn't have tried to collect money by DD.

The BACS website defines "dormancy period" as follows:

A period, normally 13 months, from Direct Debit Instruction (DDI) lodgement or last Direct Debit payment, after which a paying bank will drop details of a DDI because no payments have been collected

I should have a go at MBNA (nicely) on this basis and ask them to refund the £12 as they should have told you that the DD had expired and asked you to set it up again (or instigated this themselves).

Codswallop

Thanks for your reply. No go I'm afraid. They won't budge. The operator told my partner that he didn't have the authority to do it and that the manager wouldn't be able to do it either. Don't believe that of course, but what can we do?

Funny thing is that their sent statement for this month shows the DD HAS gone through '10TH JULY -Payment Direct Debit - Thank you' And then a subsequent letter (sent on the 15th) arrived telling us it hasn't gone through. Checked on our current account -the DD wasn't taken although payments were made to them before the due date.

Shouldn't they check that the DD has actually gone through before printing it on a statement and thanking us for the payment?! Then charging us £12? Had we gone on holiday before the subsequent letter we might have assumed that everything was fine.

On a slight tangent - MBNA make distinguishing one payment from another on one's current account very confusing, for example, Virgin isn't stated as such, its' also an MBNA payment, you have to pull out all the printed statements to distinguish one MBNA payment from another. Would it so difficult to print the name of the card issuer and then (MBNA) in brackets???
They make it all unecessarily complicated.

YorkshireBoy

Give customer loyalty a ring on 0800 783 1116.

If they can't/won't refund the £12, and if you want to pursue it, then you're going to have to make an official written complaint.

Tell them...

1. You didn't realise your DD wasn't set up because the statement said they'd collect by DD...and it was 'reasonable' for you to assume they would do what they said on the statement.

2. There were funds available in the account.

3. You made your payment so there shouldn't have been a need to try to collect a DD anyway.


No 3 is a little 'white lie' on your part though, because your MBNA DDI confirmation letter says they'll collect a DD payment based on your statement balance, and anything you pay by other means WILL NOT be taken into consideration...UNLESS you notify them at least 7 days beforehand and specifically ask them not to collect by DD/or ask them to cancel the DD.


If they mention the 13 month/400 day rule, then say you weren't made aware of that in any correspondence from MBNA and plead ignorance.


On the positive side, others have posted here that they have had their £12 charges refunded under the same circumstances.

One final point...if they class this £12 charge as a breach of the T&C's then you will most likely have lost the promotional rate on your account. You may want to ask the loyalty people this specific question when you call.

Good luck.

Codswallop

Thank you very much for that information Yorkshire Boy, that is extremely helpful.

I'll keep this board updated on what their response is. Moral of the story is: just do a direct debit for the minimal amount! Check it's still there if you haven't used the card for a while and top it up with additional payments when you can, it stops any of their nonsense.

DestroyingAngel_2

Codswallop, if you didn't mention or ask to do a DD when you took up the promo, the MBNA rep wouldn't have looked at your DD setup. You knew you had a DD in place and you assumed it was still active; the rep didn't know about any DD, previous, present or future, so how could he/she have advised you accordingly? Morale of the story: if you don't ask, you don't get.

You were charged £12 NOT for a "non-direct payment" BUT because the DD bounced. That would be called a "unpaid Direct Debit fee", and it would be a valid charge. MarkymarkD is correct - after 13 months of inactivity, a DD would be automatically rejected by your bank. But NOT by MBNA. So, the original MBNA setup would try to take the DD, your bank would then block it and return it as "instruction cancelled"...therefore the "10th July - Payment Direct Debit - Thank You" followed by the "Unpaid Direct Debit".

Codswallop

Destroying Angel, the operator spoken to knew full well that a DD was set up. They got more than the minimum amount they asked for well before time. As a gesture of goodwill, they could easily refund the £12 for a failed DD if they wanted to. The added admin. involved wouldn't have cost them this amount. If they say that the DD debit has been taken on a statement they should make damn sure it has and verify it. It's called a statement for a reason. We could have made another financial decision based on the false information they gave. Yorkshire Boy is right.

YorkshireBoy

Codswallop wrote: »

the operator spoken to knew full well that a DD was set up.

That's not strictly true.

Yes, MBNA will have it on file that a DD was set up some time ago, and has been used in the past successfully. However, and this is the crucial part, MBNA would not know that the DD mandate had 'lapsed' with your bank.

They could not assume this either, bearing in mind the time since the last collection, because the 13 month rule is not set in stone...

All banks hold details of Direct Debit Instructions on file for a minimum period of 13 months from lodgement of the Direct Debit Instruction, in the event of no collections, or from the date of the last payment.

http://www.bacs.co.uk/Bacs/Templates/ContentPages/FAQS.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7b3164887C-9059-4E8B-9D5F-DAF60F3F61B0%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2fBACS%2fConsumers%2fDirect%2bDebit%2fFAQ%2f&NRCACHEHINT=Guest

...so when DestroyingAngel said "after 13 months of inactivity, a DD would be automatically rejected by your bank" I suspect they s/he meant to say "might...depending on your own Bank's policy".

If they say that the DD debit has been taken on a statement they should make damn sure it has and verify it.

I've noticed that myself with credit cards. For example, where a payment due date falls on a Saturday, the payment shows on my online card statement as being received on Saturday...even though the DD payment doesn't actually leave my current account until the Monday. Even more extreme, is when Xmas/Boxing Day falls on a Monday/Tuesday and the DD payment shows on Saturday...even though it doesn't leave my current account until the following Wednesday.

It's almost like they're 'assuming' it will arrive...unless they're given some kind of confirmation in real time from the bank - but then that wouldn't be true in your case, because the bank wouldn't have been able to confirm anything as there was no active DDM set up.

DifferentFromTheNorm

DestroyingAngel wrote: »

Codswallop, if you didn't mention or ask to do a DD when you took up the promo, the MBNA rep wouldn't have looked at your DD setup. You knew you had a DD in place and you assumed it was still active; the rep didn't know about any DD, previous, present or future, so how could he/she have advised you accordingly? Morale of the story: if you don't ask, you don't get.

You were charged £12 NOT for a "non-direct payment" BUT because the DD bounced. That would be called a "unpaid Direct Debit fee", and it would be a valid charge. MarkymarkD is correct - after 13 months of inactivity, a DD would be automatically rejected by your bank. But NOT by MBNA. So, the original MBNA setup would try to take the DD, your bank would then block it and return it as "instruction cancelled"...therefore the "10th July - Payment Direct Debit - Thank You" followed by the "Unpaid Direct Debit".

Personally I would say that it's MBNAs duty to inform the customer that a DD may have been cancelled by the bank due to the length of time.

Egg for example, if a card hasn't been used for over 12 months the customer services advisor is required to tell the customer about potential problems with the DD, and asks them to contact their bank to ensure it is still set up. If a call is monitored and they haven't done that then they get marked down for it.

Also, in these situations it's usually returned unpaid with the reason "No DD instruction" (I can't remember the exact wording, but it's not 'cancelled by payer' or 'cancelled by bank'). What happens with Egg is they don't charge in these cases, they send off the request for the DD to be set back up then wait 8 working days before starting the procedure of calling for the payment again.

Obviously not every company is the same. However, the way in which Direct Debits work is something that all bank/credit card employees should know, I don't think the average consumer could, or should, be expected to know these things.

Making an official complaint will likely result in the charge being refunded. Let's say, although highly unlikely, it went to the Ombudsman... I see no reason why they wouldn't find in favour of the OP.

Walletwatch

Codswallop wrote: »

We have an MBNA account. We didn't use it for 2 years and then decided to use it again because of a promotional offer. This time around the DD that was once it place didn't work when they tried to take the money HOWEVER we have paid more than the monthly amount each month on time but not by the direct debit method. We are being charged £12.

Can we get a refund for the £12? and are they within their rights to charge us for a non-direct payment despite us paying more than the minimum amount on time each month?

Very grateful for any replies and what should be said to the telephone operator to get this refund.
Many Thanks

Hi

Without getting too much into the details of the specific failure of the DD going through, I honestly suggest you take the half hour out and draft a letter to the guys - mark a copy to the CEO / Chairman and chances are that you get your refund plus a compensation from the head honcho over and above a compensatory amount from the local branch manager...