International cheque payment / bank transfer

CLONNEN

I sold an item on Ebay to a bloke in Germany. He said he needed my bank details to make the payment so I sent him my Bank Name, IBAN and BIC numbers.

Five days later on October 14th he says he has gotten a friend to do the payment for him.

The money is showing in my bank account alright BUT it is showing as a Cheque Payment deposit not as a bank transfer which is what I assumed (possibly wrongly) he would be using.

Is it possible for him to have made a cheque payment into my bank account using the IBAN and BIC details I gave him OR do Nationwide bank have a weird policy of listing international bank transfers as Cheques because they can't be bothered to give it a proper separate category (such as Bank Transfer).

gizmoleeds

That's an interesting query.

It is possible to deposit cheques etc. just in envelopes, so it is possible (NB. I am theorising here - this is possible not probable) that someone could deposit a cheque in someone else's bank without them knowing and then declare the cheque stolen.

I would ask your bank to confirm, in writing, that the transfer is not ordinarily reversible before posting the item. And ask them to confirm the origins of the payment.

Also, as a rule you shouldn't really accept payments by bank transfer as they are completely unregulated. Paypal may have fees, but it provides protection.

CLONNEN

I have asked Nationwide to explain WHAT the chap has done with regard to this payment but so far all I have gotten out of them is some standard blurb about SENDING international payments - absolutely nothing about RECEIVING which is what I am querying. The payment has fully cleared into my FlexAccount so I think I should post the item to the German buyer.

He is very new to Ebay by the way so probably doesn't understand Paypal yet - it was offered as a payment option in the ebay auction. European buyers don't seem to understand that banks charge them for bank transfers to the UK as they are so used to using bank transfers on the continent. They don't seem to be credit card aware over there.

I am wondering if maybe he started out with the intention of paying by bank transfer and then discovered what the cost to him would be and decided to switch to a cheque payment instead.

gizmoleeds

I would still be sceptical. How do you know all this?

He is very new to Ebay by the way so probably doesn't understand

A scammer could easily pretend to be new to disguise his/her unusual activity.

The payment has fully cleared into my FlexAccount so I think I should post the item to the German buyer

Cheques can be revesed weeks after they have cleared if the account holder declares that the cheque was stolen.

...and decided to switch to a cheque payment instead

If I were to send someone a cheque I would put it in an envelope with a 1st class stamp. I wouldn't go down to the bank and fill out a paying in slip with the payee's bank details and put the cheque in the deposits bin. That is not a very normal thing to do.

I would keep pushing Nationwide if I were you to make sure the payment cannot be reversed. If it was a cheque deposit then find out who the cheque belongs to and make sure that is the same person you are sending the item to - ie. that they haven't used a stolen chequebook.

CLONNEN

He has a feedback rating of 3 on Ebay and only joined the week before my auction ended. His English is not very good so possibly that is why he seemed slightly confused about how to pay me. I suspect that the emails he had from Ebay about winning the item were automatically translated into German and I am not really too sure what my payment instructions come out like in German.

I have had a German buyer before and they wanted to pay me by bank transfer as well until I pointed out to them that a credit card payment through Paypal would be FREE of charges. I told them to get permission from a credit card holder to use their card for the payment as they didn't have anything other than a bank account. They don't believe in chequebooks or credit cards much over there apparently.

Paypal takes about 3-4 weeks to set up if a foreign bank account is used as the source for funds as I have learned from experience from another buyer overseas.

Because of all the DELAYS in getting payments from foreign buyers I have decided to just let them pay how they want in the first place and let them figure out the expenses on their own - at least they then have some notion of what to do - rather than have them bumbling around trying to figure out HOW to use Paypal and getting PAYMENT PENDING followed by PAYMENT CANCELLED seven days later because they haven't entered their bank details correctly. In one case it took a foreign buyer nearly a month to get his bank account and Paypal to communicate properly. The poor chap had to visit his bank manager to get it sorted out in the end.

gizmoleeds

CLONNEN wrote:

Paypal takes about 3-4 weeks to set up if a foreign bank account is used as the source for funds as I have learned from experience from another buyer overseas.

Maybe for some countries, aber ich meine es nicht für Deutchland (but I don't think so for Germany):

http://www.paypal.com/de/

PayPal leitet dann den Betrag sofort an das PayPal-Konto des Verkäufers weiter und der Käufer kann direkt sehen, dass das Geld innerhalb von Sekunden beim Verkäufer ankommt.*

*Gilt nicht bei Zahlung per herkömmlicher Banküberweisung. Hier richtet sich die Dauer nach der üblichen Zeit für Überweisungen, die in der Regel bei 2-4 Tagen liegt

Roughly translated, as a rule of thumb payments can take 2-4 days to clear into the seller's account, but are instantaneous from the buyer's point of view.

I would be worried in your situation that this could be a scammer who has deposited a stolen cheque in your account, and when the account holder discovers and reports the crime, the cheque will be reversed (perhaps in a month or two).

If you feel comfortable though, go for it. I am probably wrong.

jonesMUFCforever

You could always ask him to scan his copy of the bank transfer to you. Pretend you're having difficulty marrying off some credits to your account and want this to confirm. If he plays ball then I think he might be genuine. It could also be that his German bank did not have 'Agency' links to Nationwide and had to be sent via another UK clearing bank who paid Nationwide by cheque. For this latter option I would also get from Nationwide confirmation that the transaction is not reversible.
Eric

soolin

Paypal is not particularly well used in Germany, they have problems with the privacy laws or something. For this reason I try and exclude, as far as possible, German bidders from my auctions. It seems much more common for German bidders to pay by direct bank transfer and they seem happy enough to pay the fees as well.

As has already been said though, cheques are not good as under certain conditions they can be reversed even after clearing for funds, I had a UK cheque reversed after 6 weeks, and several others reversed days after clearing for funds.

It seems here that it is Nationwide that need to give the assurance that all is well, if they are able to accept a payment they should be able to give the recipient some assurance that the payment is clear not just for funds but against fraud.

Soo

CLONNEN

I have had word from Nationwide that it WAS a cheque payment not a bank transfer. It was apparently paid into their EXETER branch. They have advised me to contact my local branch if I need further details about the payment.

Still haven't heard back from the buyer - maybe he is having translation problems.

I have posted the item to the buyer by the way - It is only a £5.50 item so I decided to risk it.