Should I Pay Off My Student Loan? 2008/09 article discussion

Numenor

lizwigg wrote: »

Okay so I'm not getting any converts on this forum! You've all got valid points but surely someone must agree, that women, because they take mat leave and then many women go part time, end up paying more in interest on their student loans because they take longer to pay it off. This doesn't happen with any other kind of loan/mortgage because they don't come straight out of your pay packet and only start to be taken after a certain pay threshold. It may not be sexual discrimination, but is a reality of life for women. Yes you can pay extra off your loan when you're on mat leave, but how many women can afford to that when they're getting paid £500 a month? Or eat for that matter! It would be interesting to see the stats on how long men v women take to pay off their loans. I bet women pay back considerably more.

You'll be hard pressed to find converts, here or otherwise. Sure, some people will agree, but imo only the most radical feminists - the ones who give feminism a bad name.

By your logic, if someone has to take several months off due to illness, then they are being discriminated against because they are ill, since people who don't get ill pay less interest over the term of the loan. If a man has testicular cancer and cannot work for months, would that mean he is discriminated against for being a man? No.

EDIT: Oh, and you seem to have conveniently ignored my previous point about the inflation-based interest being to keep the debt the same in relative terms. So although you have paid a larger number of pounds, you haven't actually (in theory) paid a larger value of money.

Oldernotwiser

More relevant to this would be the fact that women STILL earn less than men and therefore will take longer to repay the loan on that basis. If you want to campaign, do it on that basis rather than whingeing about maternity leave, which doesn't affect all women!

melancholly

and the student loan is surely great and helpful for maternity leave, since the payments will just decrease. commercial loans don't have such nice repayment terms.... how on earth can you be making a case for the student loan to be the worst?! do you have a clue about how other loans work?!?

Fire_Fox

lizwigg wrote: »

Okay so I'm not getting any converts on this forum! You've all got valid points but surely someone must agree, that women, because they take mat leave and then many women go part time, end up paying more in interest on their student loans because they take longer to pay it off. This doesn't happen with any other kind of loan/mortgage because they don't come straight out of your pay packet and only start to be taken after a certain pay threshold. It may not be sexual discrimination, but is a reality of life for women. Yes you can pay extra off your loan when you're on mat leave, but how many women can afford to that when they're getting paid £500 a month? Or eat for that matter! It would be interesting to see the stats on how long men v women take to pay off their loans. I bet women pay back considerably more.

Most people go to university between the ages of 18 and 21. You have a choice whether to get a degree or not, and another choice whether to study full-time and taken out a student loan, or part-time and be entirely self funding. You then have another fourteen years to pay off your student loan before biology kicks in and fertility starts steadily reducing. We also have the option not to breed at all, a choice that is becoming increasingly common.

The average graduate earns more than, starts a family later than and is more likely to do so within a stable relationship than the average non-graduate. If you choose to start a family when you still have a large student loan, you must take responsibility for that decision. If you choose to start a family when not in a position to receive financial support from your life partner or do not have sufficient savings to support yourself, you must take responsibility for that decision.

You will get support from the state in the form of maternity pay, health in pregnancy grants, child benefit, contributions towards the cost of childcare, child tax credits and working tax credits if eligible. If you find all that insufficient then I would argue you are either budgeting badly or not financially stable enough to support a family. If you choose to go back to work part-time then you will probably not have to pay back your student loan, and the amount owing will only increase at the rate of inflation.

I think families get an awful lot of consideration; living on benefits is actually hardest for those who live alone. I would find it impossible to cover my essential bills (i.e. not mobile phone, internet or TV) and still eat on Jobseekers Allowance. I wouldn't be entitled to council tax benefit unless in receipt of income support, which is rarely available to those without a child.

Bigwigg

As I said at the beginning, I only wanted people's thoughts on the matter....people don't half like to jump down your throat! What a friendly bunch. With regards to it being like when people are ill, men and women can both get ill so I don't see how that's relevant. I can see that you're not actually paying much more cos it's linked to the rate of inflation. I'm not campaigning (I just wrote an on one internet forum, hardly a campaign) or whinging , it was just a thought and I still stand by the fact that women over the term of a student loan will pay back more than men on average, for varying reasons (mat leave, more likely to go part time, lower wages on average).

Numenor

I'm sorry you feel we're being unfriendly; we're simply disputing your claims. As for illness, I was only applying your logic - men and women can both get ill, yes - but your assertion was that it's unfair because women have babies and men don't. We disagree with your point. Women can choose whether to have babies or not (assuming the individual is actually fertile), and when, to a large extent. Therefore they already have one up on someone with a long-term illness - you can't choose how or when you get ill.

I think you'll probably find that none of us disagrees that women in general will be paying back for longer due to lower wages. I for one detest the fact that there is such disparity between the sexes in that respect. But one cannot say that one is being discriminated against by something which ignores gender by its very definition.

Oldernotwiser

lizwigg wrote: »

As I said at the beginning, I only wanted people's thoughts on the matter....people don't half like to jump down your throat! What a friendly bunch.

Well, you've had people's thought on the matter! We just don't happen to agree with you; that's not being unfriendly or jumping down your throat.

HangTime

lizwigg wrote: »

surely someone must agree, that women, because they take mat leave and then many women go part time, end up paying more in interest on their student loans because they take longer to pay it off

Well, if RPI in March is negative, things could get interesting!
That would mean that from September, SLC would have you pay you interest on everything you owe. That means that women on maternity leave would by your logic be BENEFITING, not losing out, because the lack of repayments would mean that their outstanding balance would remain high, thus meaning that they get paid more interest on it.

As for women going part time after maternity leave, that's their choice. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads and saying "you must have a baby and give up fulltime work". In general I strongly disagree with claims of discrimination in cases where people are 'losing out' because of a choice they have made.

To elaborate, in my view sexual discrimination is something which can potentially affect ALL people of that gender. What you are talking about doesn't affect all women, because not all women choose to have babies. Sexual discrimination to me is e.g. a situation where you have two people with equal skills and experience doing the same job, and the man is getting paid more than the woman (or vice-versa) - for no reason other than gender. With maternity leave, that isn't the case - you can't compare a man who is in work, with a woman who is on leave.

HangTime

lizwigg wrote: »

I still stand by the fact that women over the term of a student loan will pay back more than men on average, for varying reasons (mat leave, more likely to go part time, lower wages on average).

I do understand what you are saying, but I think it's more the universal issue of 'lower wages on average' that is important. We shouldn't be trying to fix this one supposed issue in relation to student loans, a far better solution would be to stamp it out at source by striving for wage equality.

If you look at the flipside of your argument, can't you see that if there was some new decree that interest rates are halted for people on maternity leave, that would be discriminating against men, because they don't have the option of going on maternity leave?

It isn't really valid to say that women will pay back more than men over the term of a student loan, if the terms are different in length. Lets say (figures plucked out of thin air as an example, don't read anything into them) a man pays back £13000 over 10 years and a woman pays back £15000 over 15 years. Yes, the woman has had to pay back an additional £2000, but she's also held onto the loan for an additional 5 years, so it's not an apples to apples comparison. The longer the term of any loan, typically the greater the total amount payable will be, because the cost of that borrowing is charged over a longer period. This is a fundamental to how finance works, and I can't see any justification for trying to create some kind of loophole for women to exploit.

Chris2685

It's all a mute point really... Paying off your student loan more slowly is a benefit, not a hindrance!