Car Ownership

brothers_in_arms

I bought a brand new car over a year ago from a Car dealer. I paid for the car upfront and it is registered in my name with DVL. It now appears that the Dealer aquired the new car from a Finance Company on a 3 year HP agreement. I had no knowledge of this. The Dealer has now gone under and the Finance Co. say they own the car and want it back. Where do I stand legally?

Thunderbird_2

You need to check the paper work you had when you purchased the car ( The invoice, purchase agreement and bank statments) Then try to speak to the people you have got legal cover with ( Your car insurer, roadside recovery firm or your home insurer) Check the paper work and see which have you got legal cover with and give them a cal and take it from there.

If you have no legal cover, try to speak to a local solicitor where they offer the first 15 min or so for free and see what they tell you.

It seems a really dodgy dealer you have dealt with there.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

standupguy

This looks like a cash raising scam on behalf of the car dealer.

He knows that you paid in full and so the vehicle was not registered with HPI as being on finance.

This gave him the opportunity to raise some cash by selling the car - on paper - to himself and raising finance on it.

So he gets the cash from the Finance company and starts making the monthly payments.

The Finance company are non the wiser as the car is not registered with an interest at HPI - they then register their interest on the vehicle.

Then the dealer goes bust and the Finance company find out he sold it and have traced it to you by doing a keeper enquiry with DVLA.

They are now trying it on to see if you will surrender the car to them - they have no right to do this.

You are what is called "an innocent purchaser" in this matter as you were unaware of this Finance arrangement.

The dealer has commited an act of Fraud - the matter is between the Dealer and finance Company.

If their agreement is dated prior to your sale then you are an innocent purchaser and if it is dated after the date of sale then the dealer did not have title to the car when he entered into the Finance agreement and therefore could not pass title to the Finance company.

They have not got a leg to stand on - don't let them mislead you!

Tell the Finance company that it is your car, you are an innocent purchaser and you want written confirmation from them within 7 days that their interest in the vehicle has been removed from HPI records.

brothers_in_arms

Once again thanks for response.
In my case the Invoice for the purchase of the new car was sent from the main car agent directly to the Finance Company. The Finance Co. then entered into a HP agreement with another car dealer who had sold me the car a week previously although they did not have title to the car at that time. Do you think this make any difference?

anewman

roperr wrote: »

Once again thanks for response.
In my case the Invoice for the purchase of the new car was sent from the main car agent directly to the Finance Company. The Finance Co. then entered into a HP agreement with another car dealer who had sold me the car a week previously although they did not have title to the car at that time. Do you think this make any difference?

If I understand correctly what you're saying (that finance was taken out on the car after you had purchased it and it was registered in your name) it seems to me like standupguy is spot on.

standupguy

No its still the same ( you are not expected to check title before you bought it from a motor dealer and from that angle title does pass and you would be an innocent purchaser

The car dealer bought the car from the main agent and asked his Finance company to Finance it knowing he had already sold it to you..

They believed the car was for him.

He sold the car to you and then knowing it would not show on HPI got the main agent to invoice the Finance Company.

So, as you say, plain and simple, the main agent did not have title to the vehicle at the date he invoiced it to the Finance company and actually the Finance company can now go back to the main agent for their money.

brothers_in_arms

I'm not sure I understand you. Does the main agent not retain title until he gets paid for the car off whoever (the Finance Co. in this case) even though the car dealer had placed the order with them?
When does title actually change hands?

mrtg0525

I think you need to have a word with Citizens Advice and/or a solicitor as soon as you can, sorry. I assume that you have the appropriate paperwork showing that you paid for the car in full etc?

I'm with standupguy here - unfortunately it appears that you have been defrauded. It's not unusual for dealers to finance the stock they have, but they're supposed to pay off the finance when they sell the car!

standupguy

I know its not easy to get your head around this one.

I think what probably has happened is the main agent will have let the dealer have the car and may have invoiced the dealer himself initially.

As sometimes happens, the dealer then says to the main agent that rather than pay for it himself he wants him to re-invoice his Finance company as he wants to take it on Finance.

So, the main agent will cancel his invoice to the dealer, if he has made one out that is, and re-invoice the Finance company.

Title does pass with invoice unless it is stated on the invoice that title does not pass until full payment received.

In this instance the trail of title does not matter - the bottom line is that title was passed to you by the motor dealer.

He sold you a car and whether he had title or not to sell it at the time, title still passes to you - the legal term is that you are an innocent purchaser

The only time title would not pass is if it was a stolen car.

Out of interest, which is the Finance company?

Keith

Fantastic posts from Standupguy, and entirely correct if I remember rightly

DealDrivers_company_representative

Can you just clarify: when you say a "brand new car" - do you mean you bought a completely unregistered brand new from the factory car from a main franchised dealership for that brand...menaing you were the first registered owner on the logbook?

I'm wondering if there's some info missing here as franchised dealers selling a brand to first owners simply don't put cars on HP, they are the rep's for that manufacturer and buy direct from the manuf'r.

Do you mean maybe that you bought a car that was 'new' to yourself, but it wasn't actually a straight-out-of-a-franchised-showroom deal? Did you buy from a re-seller of some kind? i.e. someone other than the main franchised dealer for that brand in your area?