Losing our home

rog2

reallydesperatehousewife wrote: »

Hi rog2
We are paying £50 to £100 per WEEK, we agreed that with the trustee at the meeting we had with her. She advised us that we could start paying off the debt, and I was keen at the time, as it meant that we could pay off £5000 in a year. We started off paying £100, but in recent weeks that has fallen to £50, but we always make a payment. Needless to say it has been extremely hard to do, we are at absolute rock bottom. When the vehicle needs road tax or MOT, or anything unexpected crops up it is horrendous. So far we have paid back around £1,500. The trustee told us that our home would always be at risk during the bankruptcy, as it was an asset and it could be sold to pay the debt. At our level of debt HMRC adds on about £800 per year on unpaid tax, and there is no way round that apparently.
Also the company my husband works for put him on a new "payment system" in May, it took 3 weeks to get him onto it (according to them), and when a payment did come through it was only for 1 week, they still owe him 3 weeks money, which we will only get if he leaves the job. Not sure of the legality of this, must check up on it, but if you argue with them you can lose your job on the spot if you are self employed.
Thanks for your reply, and I will definitely be phoning the advice agencies next week
best regards

Thank you, rdw, for being so honest about your situation. You must talk to someone, professionally, as soon as possible because there is something totally wrong with what is happening to you.
Having gone through an HMRC bankruptcy myself, I can not equate what is happening to you with what has happened to me.
Somebody, please, correct me if I am wrong, but once you have been declared bankrupt, then any payment that you make to the Insolvency Service/Trustee is, usually, in the form of an IPA/IPO which must be distributed equally between ALL of your creditors.
To make an agreement to pay just one creditor, in this case HMRC, what is obviously an amount that you can not afford, is tantamount to giving them the status of 'preferential creditor'. Not only is that against all of the principals of bankruptcy, but it could be illegal.
Also, I am not aware that they can still add statutory interest to a debt after bankruptcy? The only situation that I am aware of this happening is if the trustee places a charge on your house, in which case statutory interest can still be applied.
Who, may I ask, appointed the 'trustee' with whom you are dealing? Was it HMRC or was he appointed as a result of a meeting of all of your creditors?
Sorry for all the questions.

rog2

One more thing, rdw - I notice that your husband was declared bankrupt at the Edinburgh High Court. This means that his bankruptcy is cvered under Scottish Law, rather than English/Welsh Law and there may, well, be some differences in the way that his trustee can handle things, although it still seems a bit strange.

CCCS in Scotland are called Scottish Debtline - http://www.scottishdebtline.co.uk

Their contact number is 0800 138 3328

rog2

reallydesperatehousewife wrote: »

Thank you for the phone number, and the advice, I am taking notes of the points you raised, and will be acting on them
all advice is very much appreciated
best regards

You are more than welcome, rdh. You also need to check out the situation regarding the Council Tax, as many Councils consider themselves above the law.
Bankruptcy is, in effect, a request, to the courts, for protection from your creditors, whether self-petitioned, or creditor-petitioned. In your case, it would seem that your creditors are trying to turn your husband's bankruptcy to their advantage.
I will try and read up a bit more about 'sequestration' over the next few days, to see if it makes any more sense.

reallydesperatehousewife

thanks rog2
totally agree about the "above the law" comment, council comes second only to HMRC in arrogance. I never realised that bk was supposed to protect you from creditors until you mentioned it, bk to me was starting to look like they had you over a barrel until every penny was squeezed out of you.
When I spoke to the trustee once about a point I was unhappy with I was told very bluntly that "we got ourselves into this mess". Yes, us and the banking industry who have caused a lot more mayhem than the poor devils they sucked in with them.
I am seeing things through fresh eyes, and I am going to start seeking the right answers, and not just relying on the trustees word as law. Although I do accept there is probably not an easy way out.
I look forward to any other advice you can give me
thanks for all your help
best regards

Richard_S

rog2 wrote: »

Thank you, rdw, for being so honest about your situation. You must talk to someone, professionally, as soon as possible because there is something totally wrong with what is happening to you.
Having gone through an HMRC bankruptcy myself, I can not equate what is happening to you with what has happened to me.
Somebody, please, correct me if I am wrong, but once you have been declared bankrupt, then any payment that you make to the Insolvency Service/Trustee is, usually, in the form of an IPA/IPO which must be distributed equally between ALL of your creditors.
To make an agreement to pay just one creditor, in this case HMRC, what is obviously an amount that you can not afford, is tantamount to giving them the status of 'preferential creditor'. Not only is that against all of the principals of bankruptcy, but it could be illegal.
Also, I am not aware that they can still add statutory interest to a debt after bankruptcy? The only situation that I am aware of this happening is if the trustee places a charge on your house, in which case statutory interest can still be applied.
Who, may I ask, appointed the 'trustee' with whom you are dealing? Was it HMRC or was he appointed as a result of a meeting of all of your creditors?
Sorry for all the questions.

Hi Rog,

You're not wrong at all, it goes against the whole concept of bankruptcy to be making payments to one creditor. I'm not even sure about paying the O.R anything until the correct procedure has been established for estimating an IPA.

For certain, interest and costs can't be added after the date of the Bankruptcy Order, unless the law is different in Scotland.

The problem is that if a trustee has been appointed, then they don't always seem to stick to the letter of the law; in fact, some of them behave like "cowboys".

Rich

Broken_hearted

Sorry there wasn't an answer that made it better. Good luck hope something sorts it out.

Richard_S

Hi Rdh,

I must admit that I really don't understand what is going on; the laws must be significantly different in Scotland. There was a poster on here some time ago who was declared bankrupt in Scotland, and property was involved. She doesn't post anymore, but I do still get the occasional email, so I'll ask her if she can clarify the procedure; I think she's recently been discharged and the property question has been resolved.

It's never a creditor that appoints a Trustee, that's the job of the Insolvency Service, and for certain in England and Wales, interest and costs can't be added after the date of the Bankruptcy Order.

As for councils, they do take some convincing, but they can't act outside the law, and any arrears at the date of the B.O are included in the bankruptcy. Usually, that doesn't amount to much because most people pay monthly, and arrears are quite uncommon.

I'm surprised fermi hasn't contributed to this Thread because I'm fairly certain he did some research on the Scottish bankruptcy laws.

Rog2 suggested taking professional advice, and I think that would be a very good idea.

Regards

Richard

rog2

Very briefly - I have started reading up on 'Sequestration' and it does appear that the court appointed trustee can request a regular 'payment' from the 'bankrupt', although this is not always the case and should be based on the bankrupt's income/expenditure statement, similar to an 'English' bankruptcy.
I have, also, found out that other creditors can not start to request payments for debts that were there at the time of sequestration.
It does appear, certainly in this case, that the payments requested do not reflect rdh's husband's ability to pay.
I have only just started my 'research' but, already, it does look as though rdh's husband is being treated very unfairly.
Will be back when I can find out a bit more.

addicted_to_plastic

Hi ,
I Was Declared Bankrupt Last Month In Scotland, My Trustee Is The Insolvency Practioner Recommeded By Cccs........when We Filled In Our Paperwork One Of The Questions Ask If We Wanted To Nominated A Particular Firm As Trustee Or Leave It To Aib To Do This.

reallydesperatehousewife

Thank you for all your efforts rog2