Laptops with nVidia GeForce 8400M, 8500M and 8600M graphics

PrinceGaz

I don't want to scare-monger, but this is a story spreading rapidly across all PC hardware sites, and which seems very credible, and very worrying.

A lot of laptop computers from HP and other manufacturers include GeForce 8400M, 8500M or 8600M chips as they provide good graphics performance especially with games, compared with the integrated-graphics solutions on many laptops. I say from HP and others, because it has been acknowledged by nVidia that some HP laptops manufactured some time ago are affected, and as HP are the largest manufacturer in the world, it has already caused nVidia stocks to tumble due to estimated repair costs for this manufacturing fault (I'd have thought the foundry was to blame personally, but I don't know the exact details, nor does anyone yet).

The thing is, it is now believed every GeForce 8400M, 8500M and 8600M in all laptops from all manufacturers suffers from this same manufacturing defect, especially as failures have been reported in all PC brands that use them, as well as many Apple MacBooks that use them as well.

There is no easy fix for this fault with affected notebooks; nVidia are trying to alleviate it with updated drivers that turn the fan on for longer to reduce the stress on the chip- but that is just delaying the inevitable and shortening battery-life in the meantime.

The good news is that many laptops with these chips have been failing within one year and are therefore automatically covered by UK warranties. nVidia have already set aside large amounts of capital to cover replacement costs with HP which suggests that failures outside warranty will be covered (usual practice when there is a manufacturing-defect), and will hopefully do likewise with all companies who have purchased the defective G84 and G86 chips from nVidia, and those companies will hopefully cover free repairs of affected laptops regardless of warranty period (they should, as they are being reimbursed anyway by the supplier of the faulty component).

chunter

http://blogs.zdnet.com/hardware/?p=2172

you could well be onto something.

colin79666

I've got a Dell XPS M1330
just hope if its gonna pack up it does so before the warranty expires and I have to fight for it to be fixed

FreheitOverture

I had a 7900 GS in my Dell Inspiron. Broke 2 in 2 years and finally gave up after realising it was only stocked by Dell. They really are not good enough for laptops because they cannot cool themselves fast enough, especially as there is less space around them to ventilate the card

PrinceGaz

The problem I refer to is specific to nVidia GeForce 8400M, 8500M and 8600M equipped laptops. It does not mean they are overheating as such (though heat is a factor which makes early failure more likely), rather there is a fundamental manufacturing fault with them all which means they are all doomed to fail after a much shorter than normal thermal-cycles (power-on and rise to full temperature then power-off and cool-down). These chips are failing despite operating within the temperature-range they are designed for, because of this defect.

We're not talking about inadequate cooling here (the 8400M uses very little power itself but is just as vulnerable to the thermal-stress and has been reported as failing in droves), we're talking about a graphics-processor which has a manufacturing defect, the computer equivalent of a car-axle which was manufactured with metal-fatigue which will cause it to break under normal use sooner or later.

This is a very serious issue and whilst one which won't result in a recall of laptops (as there is no risk involved to customers, only a dead laptop), is likely to mean all laptops using those graphics-chips are provided free out-of-warranty repair when that chip fails, rather like the digital-cameras produced by many companies which used Sony manufactured sensors a few years ago which also had a fundamental manufacturing flaw.

This story still has someway to run, nVidia are not acknowleding the fault extends to all chips of the types I've mentioned from laptops other than those from HP, but independent reports show those chips are failing at quite high rates across all makes and models of laptops. They're going to have to pay to replace them, which explains why nVidia stocks have fallen from around 19 to less than 12 dollars in the last week. That's around a 35% fall which is severe for a NASDAQ listed company. And it hasn't yet been admitted that the defect is wider than what they have owned up to (a few early chips of that design on HP laptops only). This is still mainly a tech-site only story that only geeks or financial traders are aware of, but it is likely to affect many millions of laptop users in due course.

FacingReality

I have a HP laptop with the above chipset that has failed in the last couple of weeks. It isn't one of the laptops that HP admit to having the fault so I am pretty much stuffed unless I can persuade Comet to repair it (probably with the same type of chipset that will fail again) under the EU Doiective that I believe says all warranties should be two years.

Lily73

I'm off to small claims court with PC World for the same thing. HP DV9500 purchased Feb 08 dead in Oct 09......paid £700 for my pc. An independant engineers report states that the pc is "inherrently defective" and is not worth repairing as it will most likely break again....however PC World will only offer me a repair (they have a copy of the report!).

Aspleybirds

Same problem with my Asus U3. Graphics dead after heavy use of 3d graphics, 60 days after warranty, Asus deny its a problem and have been very unhelpful. Laptops Direct will only help if I can get an engineers report saying there was a fault from the time of purchase. A local engineer new of the problem but would not put that in writing for fear of being sued by Asus. Lily73, who was your engineer?

We need to find what NVIDIA said and to which manufacturers. If we can proove a manufacturer new about the problem and did nothing, like ASUS in my case, then we all have a claim.

Aspleybirds

(PrinceGaz) Where did you get your information from? I have a £1500 ASUS U3 with a 8400m which has broken just outside warranty. ASUS unhelpful and denying a problem, Laptops Direct wont do anything without an engineer report stating an "inherent fault", engineers I have spoken to wont write this for fear of being sues but all say they know it is......I am told it will cost £700 to fix and then the chances are it will break again. If we can proove this is inherent then everyone can claim under the Sales of Goods Act, regardless of ASUS, Dell, HP, Sony, etc etc

cuppajoe

Aspleybirds wrote: »

(PrinceGaz) Where did you get your information from?

Note that PrinceGaz posted in summer of 2008...

This may help with anyone wanting to take it further.
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-geforce-faulty-defect-gpu,7795.html