Question about a notice to quit...

shellsuit

Was going through some paperwork earlier and as my head was mashed at the time of receiving said paperwork, I didn't take things in properly.

In 2006, my OH left me, so I had to apply for housing benefit.

I received a notice to quit as i was in arrears (HB taking time which is usual), so being in a panic, I rang the agents and asked them what would happen if I paid the arrears and they said they wouldn't proceed with the notice to quit. I gathered the money together (loaned from my parents) and paid it.

I slipped into arrears again late last year (I don't receive payslips which were needed for HB purposes, so had to wait for a letter from work which took ages and in the meantime they had suspended my HB).

Agents sent me a letter (which is the one I'd read earlier today) saying that if the arrears weren't brought upto date by X date, that they would enforce the notice to quit, which I'd received 18 months earlier.

Could they really have enforced a notice to quit after so long

Everything is fine now, but it's just something I wondered today when I come across the letter again

franklee

What notice was it?

If it was a section 21 notice requiring possession then the answer to your question is yes. A valid S21 notice remains valid indefinitely unless something specific is done to make it invalid. What that means is you've had your notice and are now living without the right to any more, nicknamed the Sword of Damocles.

But as you mention rent arrears you may be talking about a Section 8 notice. I forget what the rules are for that but someone else is bound to say.

Which notice was served on you?

shellsuit

franklee wrote: »

What notice was it?

If it was a section 21 notice requiring possession then the answer to your question is yes. A valid S21 notice remains valid indefinitely unless something specific is done to make it invalid. What that means is you've had your notice and are now living without the right to any more, nicknamed the Sword of Damocles.

But as you mention rent arrears you may be talking about a Section 8 notice. I forget what the rules are for that but someone else is bound to say.

Which notice was served on you?

Thanks for your advice!

If they could inforce it, does that mean they would still have to give me 2 months notice?

I don't know where the 'notice' is ~ I can't find it anywhere

Basically it was just a letter which was headed with the agents details (like any other letter they would send me) and from what I can remember, it basically said that due to the arrears that had built up and despite giving me a warning, they were issuing me with a notice to quit.

Can it just be on headed paper or is it a 'document' so to speak?

Also, it was just posted through my letter box, wasn't hand delivered or posted with tracking, so they would never be able to prove they issued one anyway (I've read it has to be sent with tracking or hand delivered, is this true?)

Like I said, everything is fine at the moment, but i've kicked up a stink and contacted the HSE over a gas check which hasn't been done, but they have paperwork to say it has been done, so I'm trying to get any information together I can, incase they want to evict me over it.



EDIT : I've just looked at a sample section 21 and a sample section 8. It definitely wasn't a section 8 I received and even though the section 21 does look familiar, it wasn't like that on one sheet, it was on company headed paper with the same wording on it ~ would this matter??

franklee

There isn't a prescribed form for a section 21, being on company headed paper is OK. If it has similar wording to the example S21 you found then I suspect it's a S21. Does it say "Section 21" anywhere?

Serving by posting through your letter box is fine. The main thing is did you get it at least two months before the notice period expired? There are other things to look at for if the notice is valid or not as it's easy for the agent/landlord to make simple mistakes.

Assuming it was a valid S21 and nothing was done to invalidate it since then no they do not still have to give you 2 months notice. That S21 was your notice and the notice period has now expired so they are free to enforce the notice anytime time they wish. There is no time limit for them to action the notice, it could be years later. That's why it's nicknamed the Sword of Damocles. Living like that is a bad idea and you really should have asked for them to withdraw the notice in writing or issue you with a new tenancy agreement.

Tenants often do not understand that the S21 remains valid so I even put it in my sig

shellsuit

franklee wrote: »

There isn't a prescribed form for a section 21, being on company headed paper is OK. If it has similar wording to the example S21 you found then I suspect it's a S21. Does it say "Section 21" anywhere?

Serving by posting through your letter box is fine. The main thing is did you get it at least two months before the notice period expired? There are other things to look at for if the notice is valid or not as it's easy for the agent/landlord to make simple mistakes.

Assuming it was a valid S21 and nothing was done to invalidate it since then no they do not till have to give you 2 months notice. That S21 was your notice and the notice period has now expired so they are free to enforce the notice anytime time they wish. There is no time limit for them to action the notice, it could be years later. That's why it's nicknamed the Sword of Damocles. Living like that is a bad idea and you really should have asked for them to withdraw the notice in writing or issue you with a new tenancy agreement.

Tenants often do not understand that the S21 remains valid so I even put it in my sig

Wow thanks for all that ~ wish I'd found you 2 years ago!

To be honest, back then, I didn't have a clue what a section 21 was, nor ever heard of one. I just read the letter, cacked my pants and just wanted a way to stay in the house.

I'm not sure what date it was issued nor the date it was due to expire ~ I'll have to have a good root around to see if I can find it.

Knowing what I know now from what you have told me has certainly opened my eyes, I never thought that something like that could happen as I thought 2 months notice would have still had to have been given!

Thanks again for the advice

franklee

What was it that made you think it was OK to stay on in the house?

If the agent sent you a letter saying it's OK for you to stay after the S21 was served as the problems were cleared up then I think you have a good case for arguing that the S21 was made invalid.

There are landlords here who would say even written permission you could stay on does not invalidate the S21 but I cannot see how this can be because the agent's instructions are conflicting. On the one hand the S21 is telling to to leave but after that you were told you could stay.

If any permission to stay was just verbal then how would you prove it So worth looking through all the correspondence to see what you have.

If you just ignored the S21 off your own bat, and it was valid when served (no mistakes with the dates etc.), then it would definitely still be valid.

shellsuit

franklee wrote: »

What was it that made you think it was OK to stay on in the house? Because I rang the agents and asked what I could do to stop the notice and I was told to pay the arrears and nothing would happen.

If the agent sent you a letter saying it's OK for you to stay after the S21 was served as the problems were cleared up then I think you have a good case for arguing that the S21 was made invalid.

There are landlords here who would say even written permission you could stay on does not invalidate the S21 but I cannot see how this can be because the agent's instructions are conflicting. On the one hand the S21 is telling to to leave but after that you were told you could stay.

If any permission to stay was just verbal then how would you prove it So worth looking through all the correspondence to see what you have. It was verbal, just a phone call.

If you just ignored the S21 off your own bat, and it was valid when served (no mistakes with the dates etc.), then it would definitely still be valid.

I had a look again to see if I can find it but had no joy.

At least I'll know what I'm up against if they decide to enforce it thanks to you!

franklee

Pity it was just a phone call. It really is worth getting anything important from the agent confirmed in writing, even by email. If they refuse you can always drop them a line confirming what was said, when and by whom. Agents have a habit of "forgetting" what was said, it may even be the member of staff saying it has left etc. etc. Sometimes I feel they have forgotten who I am never mind what was said yesterday!

That you didn't write challenging it when they threatened to enforce the S21 the second time round would make it hard to say you don't accept the S21 is valid from a phone call before that.

But can you get something done about it now if you wish to stay. You could ask for a new six months fixed term perhaps? On the other hand if you may wish to move before they ask you to then it works in your favour - you do not have to give notice as they already did and as the notice period expired you are now free to go

teeni

franklee wrote: »

What notice was it?

If it was a section 21 notice requiring possession then the answer to your question is yes. A valid S21 notice remains valid indefinitely unless something specific is done to make it invalid. What that means is you've had your notice and are now living without the right to any more, nicknamed the Sword of Damocles.

But as you mention rent arrears you may be talking about a Section 8 notice. I forget what the rules are for that but someone else is bound to say.

Which notice was served on you?

A s8 notice is only valid for 12 months, if proceedings are not issued within 12 months then it lapses and a new one has to be issued, if this one was valid at the time and is now over 18 months old it is not valid and would not found possession proceedings in court
teeni

shellsuit

franklee wrote: »

Pity it was just a phone call. It really is worth getting anything important from the agent confirmed in writing, even by email. If they refuse you can always drop them a line confirming what was said, when and by whom. Agents have a habit of "forgetting" what was said, it may even be the member of staff saying it has left etc. etc. Sometimes I feel they have forgotten who I am never mind what was said yesterday!

That you didn't write challenging it when they threatened to enforce the S21 the second time round would make it hard to say you don't accept the S21 is valid from a phone call before that.

But can you get something done about it now if you wish to stay. You could ask for a new six months fixed term perhaps? On the other hand if you may wish to move before they ask you to then it works in your favour - you do not have to give notice as they already did and as the notice period expired you are now free to go

The agents are absolute pants. I've been here for 10 years this month and every time I've had to ring them to ask something, they have been so rude it's unbelivable.

I've been waiting for repairs which I notified them about 3 years ago! Also the trouble with the gas check which has led me to contact the HSE, that has been going on for 7 months!

I'm trying to gather some cash together because as soon as I have it, I'll be out of here like a shot!

It's good to know though that I don't have to give them any notice

Hopefully sometime after Christmas I'll be able to tell them to shove it

franklee

teeni wrote: »

A s8 notice is only valid for 12 months, if proceedings are not issued within 12 months then it lapses and a new one has to be issued, if this one was valid at the time and is now over 18 months old it is not valid and would not found possession proceedings in court
teeni

Thanks teeni, I can never remember the rules for the S8. In this case though we now think the OP was served a S21 not an S8.