Power shower problems

HeMan_3

Hi all I hope someone out there can help me.

Recently I had a power shower fitted professionally and when tested, it appeared to be working fine.
However the following morning when I went to turn it on, no water came through and the power shower did not turn on. After about 30 seconds of leaving it on, the pump kicked in and the shower ran like it was meant to. (The water spat a little like there was air in it for several minutes). After I used it, my brother used it and everything was OK.

The following day I went to have a shower and nothing happened again. This time I left it on for 13 hours before the pump kicked in at about 1 am.


I rang up watermill (my item is the BP100) who told me that the pump was working fine and that it was trapped air. The advised me to remove the shower head and turn on the shower so the water shots straight down, letting it run for 4 minutes.

I could not see the point of this however I done it but it did not work.

My plumber has now stated that I may need a larger cold water tank and is quoting me £350, stating that when the water runs out, the tank fills with air and water.

What I can’t work out is, that the cold water has never run out on me (the hot has thought).

Has anyone else experienced this problem???, any advice welcome,



Thanks ,


G.

alanobrien

HeMan wrote:

Hi all I hope someone out there can help me.

Recently I had a power shower fitted professionally and when tested, it appeared to be working fine.
However the following morning when I went to turn it on, no water came through and the power shower did not turn on. After about 30 seconds of leaving it on, the pump kicked in and the shower ran like it was meant to. (The water spat a little like there was air in it for several minutes). After I used it, my brother used it and everything was OK.

The following day I went to have a shower and nothing happened again. This time I left it on for 13 hours before the pump kicked in at about 1 am.


I rang up watermill (my item is the BP100) who told me that the pump was working fine and that it was trapped air. The advised me to remove the shower head and turn on the shower so the water shots straight down, letting it run for 4 minutes.

I could not see the point of this however I done it but it did not work.

My plumber has now stated that I may need a larger cold water tank and is quoting me £350, stating that when the water runs out, the tank fills with air and water.

What I can’t work out is, that the cold water has never run out on me (the hot has thought).

Has anyone else experienced this problem???, any advice welcome,



Thanks ,


G.

The implication seems to be that the power shower is emptying the water tank which is then not filling up quick enough to supply the shower and hence it is causing the shower to air lock.

Possible i guess but i never heard of that one before.

I would make sure any water valves serving the water tank are fully open also can you adjust the filling rate for the tank ?

Other than that i guess more volume in the form of a bigger tank would be needed

bestyman

The way to test this tank problem is to go and look in the tank with the shower running as usual say 10 mins . If the tank emptys to the water outlet ( almost at the bottom) then thats the problem..in a nutshell the tank is emptying faster than it will fill.
Three possible solutions here, empty it slower , fill it faster or get a bigger tank ( in fact 4 , don`t shower as long)
Before getting a bigger tank it might be worth checking a few things. Is the ballvalve filling up quickly, if not check all stoptaps are open fully and valve is not partially blocked. If your water pressure is terrible try get the water board to ressolve it .I was gonna mention changing the orifice in the ballvale from high pressure to a low pressure one but thats a bit of a bodge up......No get a bigger tank!



If tank size is not the problem it could be that the tank is not high enough above the shower ( id say a metre but check with manufactorer). If this is the case when you put the shower head as low as possible does the pump kick in? If so solution is higher the tank, fit negative head kit ( if available) .

Other possible things to check are that the pump has been fitted in the correct place, for example some pumps must be fitted well below the tank( check installation instructions) .Also check that the hot feed to the shower is drawn from the cylincer in the correct way ( dont think this is the answer but check as a last resort).
Finally, possible faulty flow switch on pump ( again a long shot)

You didnt have this problem before because without the pump the tank emptied slowly and chances are cold didnt come from the tank anyhow.



Bestyman

HeMan_3

There is no pressure problem as all the other taps are fine. What i can't understand is that is the tank runs empty, then how does air get in, as would the tank not be designed to refill with water if run low.

Also I don't have a surry flange on the boiler, do i need one?? and how comes the hot water tank doesnt need to be bigger as well?.

After all the hot water runs out, not the cold. Does this not imply the hot water is sucking in air?

robnye

the hot water tank is for your central heating system

you have too water systems, one for heating the other for hot water.......

moneysavingplumber

Is the pipework from the cylinder and tank to the pump, and then from the pump to the shower in 22mm? I've had this problem with Watermills that were piped in 15mm for any substantial length.

It is possible (but unlikely) that there is vortex effect if the cold water storage outlet has been drilled directly below the ballvalve, they recommend drilling it at the opposite end. Also, regarding hot water, just check your cylinder temperature assuming it has a thermostat. Most pumps won't operate properly over 65 degrees. If you have no thermostat (ie gravity system with no controls) then your pump will almost certainly be affected by this at some stage, especially if it has been drawn from an unsuitable position on the hot draw-off.

Your plumber should have checked the suitability of your system to sustain a pump before fitting it. If the tank does need upsizing then I personally would not have that person back if they didn't advise correctly in the first place.

bestyman

HeMan wrote:

There is no pressure problem as all the other taps are fine. What i can't understand is that is the tank runs empty, then how does air get in, as would the tank not be designed to refill with water if run low.

Also I don't have a surry flange on the boiler, do i need one?? and how comes the hot water tank doesnt need to be bigger as well?.

After all the hot water runs out, not the cold. Does this not imply the hot water is sucking in air?

To answer your points ( assuming too smaller tank is the problem).
1. Other taps will be fine, they are not pumped.
1b, The tank is designed to fill with cold water as it emptys and runs low, the problem is that it is emptying faster than it can fill up ( read point 3)
2.Some pumps need a flange, with others its ok to join the hot to the showerjust after the cylinder outlet (usually pointing down)


3. This is difficult to explain . The cold water tank before you got your shower installed would fill the hot water cylinder up with water . Cold water would usually come straight from the mains and not from the cold water tank . Its confusing, cold water tanks dont supply cold water usually. Now you have a power shower installed both the hot water cylinder and the cold feed to the shower come from the same cold water tank.
This means that you have both hot and cold to your shower pumped so it flows fast from this one small tank. As the tank has only one feed to fill it up it cannot fill as fast as it emptys. When the tank is empty the shower sucks in air .
Bestyman
ps note to MSP, had to laugh, you were exactly right in your last PM.
On another point, in yorkshire the cold tank only supplies the cylinder and possibly tank fed showers and bidets. Down your way is it true that the cold tank also supplies cold basin and bath taps? Someone also told me that you have square cylinders down there and even 36x18s have female tappings, but I dont believe that ;O)

HeMan_3

my plumber (who fitted the power shower) is charging £350.00 to put a new tank in. Shall i kill him now or after its in.

alanobrien

HeMan wrote:

my plumber (who fitted the power shower) is charging £350.00 to put a new tank in. Shall i kill him now or after its in.

Wait until he has fitted the new tank then you can bury him in the old one

moneysavingplumber

Reply to Bestyman:

I haven't worked out to view my own sent pms so I don't remember what I was right about! :rotfl:

It's quite common down here to have CWST only supplying cold feeds to cylinders also, especially in older council properties.

I think it was the early mixer shower taps and basin monos that prompted the use of stored water to bathrooms to equalise pressures.

Square cylinders... :rotfl: