Denmark is the First to Fall

Mary_Hartnell

Snooze wrote: »

Invested in wood heating? I think you might need to recheck your sums! I spent some considerable time earlier this year looking at cheaper alternatives to leccy and gas and there simply aren't any. People bang on about solar panels and wind turbines etc, but if you do the research you'll find that solar panels are about the same price as your house and you may see a return on your investment in about 150 years time (and that's with the Government grant, and also assuming you can get it) plus also factor in that one full day's summer sun will provide just about enough energy to boil a kettle... once.

Home wind turbines are even worse at leccy producing duties and you'd need a full week of a constant force 9 gale in order to boil a kettle. :rolleyes:

As for wood heating, compare the cost of wood against the cost of gas and you'll see that wood is more expensive (although with the cost of gas continually going up there probably isn't much difference now), not to mention that wood burning boilers are about 4 times the price of a normal boiler. On a similar vein, burning corn and wood pellets are more expensive still and all options require you to live in a non-smokeless zone.



Rob

I agree with everything you say over (say) the next five years.
But I was thinking more "sustainability" and "carbon footprint".
I live a few hundred yards off the end of the gas pipe and almost nobody who has not already got gas can afford to get connected.
(And be beholden to Russia ??????).
A lot of people are still thinking 1970's style, when you could bung in an oversized, cast iron Potterton, and have no worries or hassle for 30 years (except for the ever increasing bills).
Now you HAVE to put in a condensing boiler, cover it with clever digital technology, and pay an arm and a leg to have it serviced every year - cos it won't last if you don't. I can see the regulations on the use of fossil fuels getting more and more restrictive.

People with solid walled detached houses in the countryside are already facing annual heating bills well into 4 figures - some of them as pensioners will simply not be able to continue living in their current homes. It will be interesting to see what happens to the values of these remote expensive to heat & expensive to reach properties.
If they are somewhere scenic, and they get cheap enough, they will become second homes and be boarded up during the winters.

BTW there are 60 trees per person in Britain and most of them are not near centres of population, so it is pretty obvious that burning wood is not a sustainable option either.

Mary.

Is the longer term future (say 20 years) moving in with relatives and living in flats at higher densities of 1.5 persons per room and 20 sq meters per occupant. (Probably a higher standard of living than in Victorian times?)

Dithering_Dad

Mary_Hartnell wrote: »

BTW there are 60 trees per person in Britain and most of them are not near centres of population, so it is pretty obvious that burning wood is not a sustainable option either.

Most of the wood used in heating is provided from Coppicing and modern stoves can have hoppers that allow wood pellets to be funnelled into the stove. The wood pellets come from fast growing trees such as willows or from waste products such as sawdust, wood shavings, nut kernals and fruit pits. All is renewable and sustainable. They're just not as convenient than gas because the heat is not instant and you have to clean out the ash.

You'd find that as the takeup of wood burning stoves increased, so would the size and number of woodlands, which would be no bad thing and less combustable material would be consigned to the landfills.

Wood smoke contains almost no sulphur dioxide and very little in the way of nitrous oxides. This means acid rain is not produced as a result of burning wood. In addition, it should be noted that the carbon dioxide released when wood is burned is the same as that absorbed by the tree when it was growing.

seven-day-weekend

I live in Spain and have a woodburning stove. (Yes, our winters are bl00dy freezing here at 1000m above sea level.). I have not had to buy any logs in the four years since we moved here as we inherited some with the house and then a neighbour who was moving on cut down four trees off his land and gave us all the wood. We don't use the woodburner more than about twice a week and maybe not even that, so the wood has lasted.

When the wood runs out we will be buying no more as it is really expensive, more expensive than electricity. We use bottled gas and that has gone up from eight euros for the standard bottle to fourteen in the four years we have lived here.

Our house is old and does not have any solar panels, but new houses have to have an element of solar power, which I totally agree with in this sunny country.

Iwould not object to wind turbines; as someone has already said existing farmland could be used and I too think they are elegant.

IMHO maybe the UK could make more use of both wind and wave power, as we have plenty of both.

BiggaThanBen

Snooze wrote: »

Yes Denmark is lovely, as long as you don't mind paying the equivalent of £20 for a pint.

Rob

Then you should not have any problems, the most expensive pint I've ever seen there was £5 ... or you meant Sweden ?

Dithering_Dad

Denmark and Sweden have comparable prices for alcohol, and they're aroudn the £5 mark, with perhaps upto £7 if you're in an exclusive hotel or club. We went to a casino bar in Stockholm and it was £6 a pint. Finland is also expensive for beer, at about £6 per pint and I believe Iceland is the most expensive, but I haven't been there yet. Denmark is quite a lot cheaper than the other scandinavian countries, but still noticeably more expensive than the UK.

To be honest, I think we'd have less binge drinking and public drunkeness (especially in adolescents) if the price of alcohol was as expensive in the UK as it is in Scandinavia.

kennyboy66_2

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

Denmark and Sweden have comparable prices for alcohol, and they're aroudn the £5 mark, with perhaps upto £7 if you're in an exclusive hotel or club. We went to a casino bar in Stockholm and it was £6 a pint. Finland is also expensive for beer, at about £6 per pint and I believe Iceland is the most expensive, but I haven't been there yet. Denmark is quite a lot cheaper than the other scandinavian countries, but still noticeably more expensive than the UK.

To be honest, I think we'd have less binge drinking and public drunkeness (especially in adolescents) if the price of alcohol was as expensive in the UK as it is in Scandinavia.

If Danes don't consume more alcohol than the UK per capita, then the difference is negligible.

Dithering_Dad

kennyboy66 wrote: »

If Danes don't consume more alcohol than the UK per capita, then the difference is negligible.

???

lostinrates

Mary_Hartnell wrote: »

I must confess I don't know exactly where in the South West this is proposed - perhaps you can post a link?
quote]

Sorry missed this before ....if its the one I referred to, N. Dorset, somewhere arounf Gillingham if I recall correctly

sticky23

carolt wrote: »

Back to topic - I love Denmark. If only they'd have me/ I could learn Danish, I'd have moved there years ago.

Bloody hard language though.

No surprise it's been voted 'happiest'. It's full of happy Danes - you can tell the tourists; they're the stressed, miserable looking ones.

Count yourself lucky. The Danes are some of the most insular, xenophobic and intolerant people on the planet.. And I'm Danish, so I should know... (Moved to the UK 10 years ago, though, so count myself half Bristish..)

Honestly, if you're not like them, they don't like you.. It could be anything from height (Danes are very tall), skin colour (pale skin is almost as bad as dark skin, only suntanned skin is considered desirable), political views (extremely right wing), clothes or life style...

Great country if you fit the profile.. If you don't, stay well clear..

carolt

sticky23 wrote: »

Count yourself lucky. The Danes are some of the most insular, xenophobic and intolerant people on the planet.. And I'm Danish, so I should know... (Moved to the UK 10 years ago, though, so count myself half Bristish..)

Honestly, if you're not like them, they don't like you.. It could be anything from height (Danes are very tall), skin colour (pale skin is almost as bad as dark skin, only suntanned skin is considered desirable), political views (extremely right wing), clothes or life style...

Great country if you fit the profile.. If you don't, stay well clear..

Don't spoil my Danish fantasy! Is this all Denmark, incl. Copenhagen? That's the only bit I saw lots of and LOVED.

BTW, Dithering Dad, unless they've had massive inflation since I was there, I think you're wrong on prices; I found it a fair bit cheaper than the UK, and a lot cheaper than the rest of Scandinavia. Can't remember alcohol specifically (I don't drink much, so don't bother to compare prices), but meals out, accommodation etc were certainly cheaper than the London (capital city) equivalent.