Deeds

Henwen

hostertlady wrote: »

is it only houses built after a certain date that need to be registered or all houses??

Any house bought after 1989 in England or Wales has to be registered following the purchase. There are earlier dates for compulsory registration in different areas but in late 1989, compulsory registration became national.

Mary_Hartnell

I believe that as from about 10 years ago ALL transactions in land have to be registered.
Prior to this, if the land stayed in the same family, the solicitor just put a copy of the death certificate together with a document identifying the beneficiary into the deed box and life continued much as before.
Now in theory you can poke about on the on-line map and find out who REALLY owns next door but five, how much they paid for it and who they went to for the mortgage. Can be interesting!:D

It is the LAND that is registered, it just happens to have a building on top of it.

Henwen

Thanks Mary Hartnell, you're quite right about the land/house point. It's not quite any deal involving land but the most common ones needing to be registered are purchases, mortgages and leases intended to last for more than a few years. Hope that helps clarify things.

Mary_Hartnell

...........and change of ownership, I think you will find, even when no money is involved.

Back in 1998 someone (thought) he had inherited an (unregistered) field next to us. The plans he sent in to the Land Registry conflicted with the reality of our garden.

My understanding is that this was soon after the law had changed to make such changes in ownership compulsorily registrable. Hence the problem created by his 80 year old plans.

Mary.

PS I've just done a search of The Land Registry web site and discovered that there were further changes added in 2002.

So the events that now have to be registered are:
Deed of gift. (self explanatory)
Assent. (what you sign when you inherit land)
and now:
• Additional compulsory triggers:
– new lease granted for term of more than 7 years;
– transfer of lease with more than 7 years unexpired;
– first legal mortgage protected by the deposit of the title deeds of an unregistered lease with more than 7 years
unexpired;
– reversionary lease (any length) taking effect more than 3 months from date of grant.
• Additional possibilities for voluntary first registration:
– franchise;
– profit a prendre in gross;
– discontinuous lease for term not exceeding 7 years (but compulsory if granted out of registered land);
– existing lease with more than 7 years unexpired.

So apart for short term leases (what we would call rental agreements) it looks like most legalities connected to land have to be registered. It would also appear that there is some sort of registration protection for "protected tenants" - a dying breed of old tenants that cannot be evicted and where it is very difficult to increase the rent.

notenoughcash

I worked for a big high street bank in their mortgage redemption department for 7 years. It's a couple of years since I left so a little rusty but the basics are:

It is very rare to find an unregistered property/piece of land, if you are selling an unreg property than it must have been owned by you for a very long time and will be subject to compulsary registration. This means that it will be given a 'title number' and all details will be electronically stored by the land registry. They used to issue a document bound in blue cardboard detailing the charges on the property (eg mortgage to nat west and secured loan to halifax) whether freehold/leasehold and the details of the owners of the property which were known as the title deeds. This became purely electronically stored a few years ago and therefore there are no physical title deeds for a registered property. However, should there be a double glazing or insulation guarantee for example you would be expected to produce this if selling.

Unregistered title deeds tend to be rather bulky and complicated, detailing owners of land from year nought blob who sold land to Mr Smith who built a house that he left to his great grandson who knocked it down and built 3 houses that he signed over in a deed of gift to his sons and so on and so forth.

So, an answer to your original question there may not actually be any physical title deeds but you should receive confirmation that all charges over the property have been removed.

I hope this might make even little bit of sense?! I know what I mean if nothing else any way!!

Mary_Hartnell

notenoughcash
is right in practice but legally the bumph only had to got back 15 years or to the last conveyance (transfer of ownership) if earlier, to cover the possibility of adverse possession (squatters rights). Solicitors would not bother to go through the "bundle" and sort out the obsolete stuff.
It can be interesting I've got bumph that goes back to the 1700's in my bundle.

It is sad in some ways that "Time Team" won't be able to get its hands on these documents if we all throw them away.

Mary

PS The basic rules for adverse possession are "If you have used the land for 12 years and prevented others from using it - then it is yours". However there are several iff's & but's and the rules are stricter if the land is registered - see Land Registry site for details.
They have a document warning about organisations trying to encourage squatting as a get rich quick scheme.

dest

notenoughcash wrote: »

I worked for a big high street bank in their mortgage redemption department for 7 years. It's a couple of years since I left so a little rusty but the basics are:

It is very rare to find an unregistered property/piece of land, if you are selling an unreg property than it must have been owned by you for a very long time and will be subject to compulsary registration. This means that it will be given a 'title number' and all details will be electronically stored by the land registry. They used to issue a document bound in blue cardboard detailing the charges on the property (eg mortgage to nat west and secured loan to halifax) whether freehold/leasehold and the details of the owners of the property which were known as the title deeds. This became purely electronically stored a few years ago and therefore there are no physical title deeds for a registered property. However, should there be a double glazing or insulation guarantee for example you would be expected to produce this if selling.

Unregistered title deeds tend to be rather bulky and complicated, detailing owners of land from year nought blob who sold land to Mr Smith who built a house that he left to his great grandson who knocked it down and built 3 houses that he signed over in a deed of gift to his sons and so on and so forth.

So, an answer to your original question there may not actually be any physical title deeds but you should receive confirmation that all charges over the property have been removed.

I hope this might make even little bit of sense?! I know what I mean if nothing else any way!!

Just for info, it greatly depends on what area of the country you live in to whether the property is registered or not.

For example a lot of wales and cornwall are still unregistered.

I work doing unreg hips and about 2% of properties coming to the market are unregistered

Also it is common for banks and building societies to keep £1 owing on the mortgage so they can carry on holding the deeds (ie they still have a charge over the property)

I have seen quite a few deeds packs, and its pretty rare to find documents going back to the 1700s, so you are quite lucky...

LumpyCustard_2

I just received a huge packet of deeds from the Halifax yesterday after I paid my mortgage off. The sale was made after April 1998 so the title is registered on the Land Registry database - I checked it's there.

So do I still need to keep the deeds particularly safe, or are they now redundant?

Mary_Hartnell

Really you need to be able to go back at least 15 years, preferably 20 incase someone cames out of the woodwork claiming they have a right to a right of way across your land (for example there is a sewer down there that nobody now knows about but it was installed in 1989 and someone has failed (or not) to register it.)
"Hullo mate - I've got a collapse and I'm going to dig up your garden next Friday"
"Wot right through the marquee for my daughter's wedding?"
"On my copy it says I have to give you 48 hours notice - shame about the patio you have built".

Is there anything in the bundle that could be useful/interesting to you or a future owner?
For example a "building line" or "fence tacks" for fence responsibilities - have these found their way onto the official plan?
Does the Land Registry document record actual dimensions, preferably in the written bit?