COMBI or CONDENSING BOILER

KK21_2

Hello

My father-in-law has had a plumber visit his house to give hime some advice, as part of the WarmFront Scheme. Sadly he has Alzheimer's.

Anyway, at present he has a Baxi back boiler, which has been in his house for at least 20 years, if not longer. It is now giving problems, and regularly goes out. A new central heating system will be wonderful.

Friends of my father-in-law, also through WarmFront had their Baxi back boiler removed and a new Combi boiler fitted. However, because the original pipes, under the floor boards may not have taken the pressure of a new Combi system, new pipes were fitted, but above the skirting board. The couple paid extra to have these pipes boxed in.

I assumed my father-in-law would be getting the same sort of system. I have a combi boiler in my own house and it works great; instant hot water at any time of the day.

However, he has been advised that the best system is a condensing boiler, linked to a new hot tank. Apparently the pressure in this sort of system is lower which will mean all pipes below the existing floorboards can be re-used. This does sound a better bet in this situation .. BUT !!!

I thought the combi boiler was supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread.

Please advise !

I thank you in anticipation for your answers

Cardew

All boilers sold today are condensing boilers(unless there are very special special reasons) you have no choice in the matter.

What I supect he was told is the choice is between a 'conventional' free standing boiler that heats a hot water tank, or a combi boiler.

A combi boiler will be cheaper to run, but there may be more involved in the plumbing - tank to be removed etc etc and certainly new plumbing.

There are some knowledgeable plumbers on this forum, or you may wish to post in the DIY section for their advice.

Personally I much prefer a Hot water tank, and the losses from a well lagged tank are not that high. It may well be that this is the cheaper overall option.

Be very careful of the quotes you get!!

wazza

I have a similar setup. Had a guy from Warmfront visit me. Since my boiler heats the water in the water tank, the water from the tank supplies the taps and radiators through a pump. If i was to have a combination boiler fitted then i would have to sign a disclaimer. They will use the same pipework. Since the water is fed from the mains supply the pressure in the pipes will be higher which can cause leaks in the old joints. They will not be held responsible for leaks. He did not say that i can have new pipeworks fitted along the walls. He did say that combi boilers are less reliable than normal system.

btr30

As Cardew says all new boilers are now condensing boilers or (SEDBUK A or B rated) to meet revisions in building regs in order to help meet energy efficiency targets. Generally, all boilers are now cold fed from a mains cold water fill loop which will mean the heating circuit has mains pressure through it, which could expose weakness in original pipe installation. If installation is of a good quality this will not be an issue.
However there are several options available. A COMBI boiler provides instantaneous hot water, and is a great space spaver. Heating and hot water is provided by mains pressure water. Choose a boiler that will give good hot water performance, as they can be painfully slow to run a bath. Another drawback of a combi is that all your eggs are in one basket, and if the boiler fails, you have no back up to provide hot water, like an immersion heater in a convential hot water cylinder.
Another option is to instal a system boiler which can feed the existing existing DHW cylinder and give the fall back of an immersion heater. The hot water will still be fed from existing cold water storage tank, and heating will be at mains pressure.
Another option is to instal a system boiler and an unvented hot water cylinder which will provide mains pressure hot water, and have a back up immersion heater. You could also get rid of cold water storage tank and convert to mains cold water throughout. This will be a lot more expensive and probably not available through warmfront.

Pipes can still be installed under the floor, but this is more time consuming for installer, as they will have to move furntiure, pull back carpets, cut floor boards etc, so I don't know if warmfront will pay for this

KK21_2

Having been told to wait for up to 2 weeks for an installer to contact me (Iguana) I decided to wait a little longer. Tomorrow will have been 3 weeks since the surveyor came

I contacted Warmfront to be told that the chap who had been was actually from an installation company but he had cancelled the job. Why i asked, but was told that nobody at Warmfront knew.

When he called, the way he was talking i assumed he was from Warmfront. He told me he'd be passing this to Iguana.

Now I'm told it will need re-allocated and a new survey requested, which could be several more weeks.

has any body else had this kind of service with Warmfront ?

thanks in anticipation

space_rider

I wouldn`t have all my eggs in 1 basket and have a combi boiler. Especially if I didn`t have an electric shower.

planemad

All combi boilers are condensing now days and must be fitted unless you have a Corgi exception certificate.

Its sort of standard practice for councils to also fit a hot water tank when fitting a combi so that if the combi does fail you still have access to hot water, which I would say is a good idea as your father with his illness will be class as a "vulnerable person".

greenbee

As well as a reserve supply of hot water in case the boiler fails, a hot water tank in an airing cupboard can be useful for keeping linen/clothes from getting damp, and provide some warmth if the heating fails too!

mrsproudmum

Just wanted to say becareful soemone is with your relative when anyone visits..

we had a terrible experience we with warmfront that made me quite ill..

a man came out to me luckily i made my other half have the day off and my sIL was visiting....he told me
i was eligable for a new boiler and 5 radiators plus loft lagging
to remove everything from two bedrooms (we are in a two up two down terrace with two teenagersO) because they would need us to take up all our newly fitted laminate flooring in the bedrooms ..this was a shock lol
he told us to empty the loft for the lagging
he told us all this was free and infront of sIL as i kept checking and checking with him the details..
he told us the work would commence after any date i gave so i gave august after we came back from holidays , i had to ask my mum to move her holidays so she could have the kids and dog whilst workmen were in for 2 days and house was upside down ...all these arangements were made.
We cleared out alot of stuff from loft and had to tip our 3 wardrobes as there was no space to move them and they could not be dismantled ,we cleared out alot of stuff we would not have got rid of,

then came august,sept,oct,nov

i rang in nov and some snotty woman just told me i was not having any work done because they ahd previously fitted one storage heater for me years ago that i could not afford to heat electric and made my asthma bad
i told her i had signed and a man had been out and told me that i was having new bolier and 5 radiators and lagging...she really upset me on the phone.
Anyway i ended up speaking to a manager and kicking up a stink and after alot of phonecalls and me paying £30 for doctors letter about stupid electric heaters i had a letter arrive...i could have the work doen if i paid £1400 of the £3000 odd bill...???????
i rang back and explained if i had £1400 i would not be in a postition to be eligible for help and would not be asking for help as the wuote given to me for the same thing by a local gasman was only £1400 for boiler and 5 rads.
They rang me back days later telling me it was correct this was the charge for my small homes work?
i argued for months with them by letter and phone that they should not send men out telling me it was free and getting me to tip my belongings and make plans and upset my whole house moving stuff out of rooms if he was lying or got it wrong !!!!
i said ok can i pay in installments then ,they said no
In the end i told them to stick it where the sun doesnt shine and had a mini breakdown with bad nerves instead ...we still have no heating and very old boiler sat here and another winter to not look forwards to.

I honestly would not like to think of an older person having to deal with them at all or sign anything ,and as for the highclass workmanship if it is anything like the men who fit my storage heaters years ago then it was far from highclass service.

i hope you get better luck or find another way to do it.
sorry i waffled so long!

roddydogs

Luckily i had one of the last non-condensing combis fitted just before they became "Illeagal". Combis are less reliable in general, condensing ones even more so as im told that the heat exchangers have to be made too thin and dont last as long. Anyone confirm?

planemad

roddydogs wrote: »

Luckily i had one of the last non-condensing combis fitted just before they became "Illeagal". Combis are less reliable in general, condensing ones even more so as im told that the heat exchangers have to be made too thin and dont last as long. Anyone confirm?

True! The by-product of the boiler is slightly acidic water which rots the heat exchange within no time.
The better more expensive boilers normally have thicker stainless steel exchanges which last longer whereas the cheaper one tend to use thinner treated steel.