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  • FIRST POST
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 9th Dec 07, 8:59 PM
    • 199Posts
    • 24Thanks
    fruitpie
    neighbour spray painted his fence and our house too !!!
    • #1
    • 9th Dec 07, 8:59 PM
    neighbour spray painted his fence and our house too !!! 9th Dec 07 at 8:59 PM
    Hi all, we have a drama - any help and advise would be appreciated.

    The neighbour across the way from me, spray painted his 50ft long fence in the high winds. It has, for the want of a better word, splatered, the car, garage door, upstairs and down stairs white upvc windows and frames, and the side elevation to the conservatory at the back !

    Its wicks creosote subsitute, and will not wash off.

    Can we make a claim through his insurance,? he says he has contacted his insurance and they are sending someone out to look at the damage to my house and also my next door neighbours house, that also now has brown freckles but that was a week ago now and no visit.
    Last edited by fruitpie; 13-12-2007 at 9:18 PM. Reason: missed a word out !
Page 1
    • vikingaero
    • By vikingaero 9th Dec 07, 10:04 PM
    • 10,314 Posts
    • 13,016 Thanks
    vikingaero
    • #2
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:04 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:04 PM
    Oh dear fruitpie!

    I would ask your neighbour for details of his house insurer. Take pictures of the damage in daylight. Given that it's a non-urgent claim (no property damage, leaks, flood, uninhabitable etc) the insurer may take a couple of weeks to send someone round.

    Do not under any circumstances be bullied into claiming off your own household policy or car policy. Household insurance normally does not have the right of abrogation (the insurer does not claim off the guilty party unless it's $$$$) and a claim on your own policy will register as a claim for years. If you have legal expenses cover then consider giving them a call.

    Basically your neighbours insurer should hopefully pay up under the Public Liability section of the policy........ assuming your neighbour actually has a policy.
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 9th Dec 07, 10:26 PM
    • 199 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    fruitpie
    • #3
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:26 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:26 PM
    Do not under any circumstances be bullied into claiming off your own household policy or car policy. Household insurance normally does not have the right of abrogation (the insurer does not claim off the guilty party unless it's $$$$) and a claim on your own policy will register as a claim for years. If you have legal expenses cover then consider giving them a call.

    Thank you so much for your pompt reply vikingaero .. could you just explain again about "abrogation" thank you..
  • paintpot
    • #4
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:35 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:35 PM
    Hi

    Sorry, can't really advise on the insurance side but just to say my neighbours did the same thing, it didn't go on my car thank goodness but the whole of the back of the house was sprayed in green paint including white UPVC windows, patio doors, back door and sophet boards. I spent almost an entire day with every cleaning product under the sun and found brillo pads worked a treat to get it off! I don't think that would work on your car though I was seriously using every expletive under the sun by the end of it but they are back to being white again - only my arms fell off! Good luck!
    Last edited by paintpot; 09-12-2007 at 10:52 PM.
  • colnkits
    • #5
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:42 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:42 PM
    No advice re the insurance...but paint thinners should get it off your UPVC.

    Hope you get it resolved

    Kits
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 9th Dec 07, 10:52 PM
    • 199 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    fruitpie
    • #6
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:52 PM
    • #6
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:52 PM
    Thanks for that Paintpot - I like your name very appropriate.

    I have been advised by the manufacturer of the stuff he sprayed that only a Solvent will remove the stains and that they recommend that Solvents are not used, as on UPVC it dulls the shine and makes the plastic brittle. More importantly this product should only be applied by brush or dip method, it should not be sprayed. God knows what will happen about the spots on the car. The splats on the white upvc windows appear to have sunk into the plastic and have leached. Well done to you with your cleaning, I hope your arms have recoverd.
    • vikingaero
    • By vikingaero 9th Dec 07, 10:56 PM
    • 10,314 Posts
    • 13,016 Thanks
    vikingaero
    • #7
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:56 PM
    • #7
    • 9th Dec 07, 10:56 PM

    Thank you so much for your pompt reply vikingaero .. could you just explain again about "abrogation" thank you..
    Originally posted by fruitpie
    When you make a claim under your car insurance policy, you have the car repaired and pay the excess and then recover the excess from the third party at fault. Once you reclaim this excess then this proves that you were not at fault and your insurer recovers the cost of repairing your car from the third partys insurers. You are left with a non-fault claim on your records.

    Home/household insurance is different. When you claim your insurer will pay out irrespective of fault of a third party. That is that they generally will not recover the cost of the damage from the third party unless the amounts are very high. This is where no right of automatic abrogation exists - that is, your insurer cannot or will not claim back it's costs off a third party. So if you claim under your own policy you will have a "claim" on your records.
  • paintpot
    • #8
    • 9th Dec 07, 11:01 PM
    • #8
    • 9th Dec 07, 11:01 PM
    Fruitpie, I laugh about it now but I didn't at the time I assure you. And my OH got it in the neck cos the neighbour, unbeknown to me, came round to apologise cos they realised what they had done and OH said "no bother I'll wipe it off" and DIDN'T, then b***ered off on a business trip and left it to me to sort out having finally told me! I tried all sorts of products, exactly for the reason you mention cos some products can be damaging to UPVC so it was Cif and a brillo or should I say bottles of Cif and packets of brillos Maybe you are wiser going down the insurance route TBH based on the advice you have had and as it's your car aswell that puts a different spin on things.

    Why are people so stupid :confused:? In fact double :confused: ! I still have no arms, I type with my nose
  • mattymoo
    • #9
    • 10th Dec 07, 8:29 AM
    • #9
    • 10th Dec 07, 8:29 AM
    Home/household insurance is different. When you claim your insurer will pay out irrespective of fault of a third party. That is that they generally will not recover the cost of the damage from the third party unless the amounts are very high. This is where no right of automatic abrogation exists - that is, your insurer cannot or will not claim back it's costs off a third party. So if you claim under your own policy you will have a "claim" on your records.
    Originally posted by vikingaero
    Are you sure about this vikingaero. I am not familiar with the term "abrogation" but wonder if you mean "subrogation", the insurers ability to pursue claims in the policyholders name to effect a recovery. That certainly does exist on household policies and is a basic principle of all insurance policies AFAIK.
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 10th Dec 07, 5:45 PM
    • 199 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    fruitpie
    Thanks Mattymoo for your input, but it all sounds as clear as mud !!! what do you think about this situation I am in ? - cheers...
  • mattymoo
    You certainly have a clear cut case in the "Tort of Negligence" against the neighbour and any claim against him would succeed.

    To help your case, take photos (as someone else has suggested) and if you can, find a copy weather report for the day in question. If you have the papers in a recycling pile, that would help. If not, don't worry as insurers can access historical weather records.

    I have checked abrogation / subrogation on Wikipedia and looking at those, I am certain I am correct. Here is what Wikipedia says about Subrogation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subrogation

    Put simply, if your insurer pays out for damage to your property, they can assume the same legal rights you have, and pursue legal action in your name. They would then use this to recover their outlay from the neighbour and his insurance company.

    It would be worth checking your insurance policy to see if you have household legal expenses cover. If not, you might have it through union membership or a fee paying bank account.

    The legal cover would pay for the cost of a solicitor to pursue your claim.

    The person who is coming to see you will be a loss adjuster employed by your neighbours insurer. He will charge them a fee and to justify this, will attempt to adjust your claim downwards. He / she will expect to see two or three quotes for the work or may suggest a firm with experience in this area. They will then approve the cheapest so be happy in your own mind that the work is of an acceptable standard before signing off on it.

    The car will be the trickiest thing. They need a sound surface to spray and if the creosote is attacking the paint / metal then this will need to be dealt with, possibly via panel replacement. If you are looking at a total respray with panels, the costs will easily reach £2-3k and depending on the age / type of car, might make it beyond economic repair.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 11th Dec 07, 5:54 PM
    • 24,095 Posts
    • 11,373 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    I know it sounds obvious but has OP's neighbour admitted liability?
    If not how do you PROVE it was caused by them?

    (I know that you can say that his fence is now green where before say it was brown, and that your window frames, car etc is now splattered green, but to a legal brain what if neighbour denies all knowledge?)
    OP says that the neighbour has contacted his insurance company - but has he?
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
    • candygirl
    • By candygirl 11th Dec 07, 6:02 PM
    • 25,865 Posts
    • 104,800 Thanks
    candygirl
    Wot an idiot!!! However it reminds me of when me and my ex were teenagers spray painting our vespas next to his dads jag.Guess what ended up multicoloured. we were young and daft though, your neighbours sounds positivally simple:rolleyes:
    "You can't stop the waves, but you can learn to surf"

    (Kabat-Zinn 2004)
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 11th Dec 07, 6:59 PM
    • 199 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    fruitpie
    I know it sounds obvious but has OP's neighbour admitted liability?
    If not how do you PROVE it was caused by them?

    (I know that you can say that his fence is now green where before say it was brown, and that your window frames, car etc is now splattered green, but to a legal brain what if neighbour denies all knowledge?)
    OP says that the neighbour has contacted his insurance company - but has he?
    Originally posted by ejones999
    HI 999 - he has admitted to us that he did it. When we arrived home from Xmas shopping - he and his other half were frantically scrubbing away at my next door neighbours window frames and white upvc porch. He (being Mr Sprayer, who lives opposite us ) then came over to ours in an attempt to clean it off our frames.
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 13th Dec 07, 9:06 PM
    • 199 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    fruitpie
    Evening all - thought I would let you know that the brown marks are still there!!!!! No news from Mr & Mrs "Sprayers" insurance company...what now... ???
    Last edited by fruitpie; 14-12-2007 at 10:44 PM.
  • paintpot
    Evening all - thought I would let you know that the brown marks are sill there!!!!! No news from Mr & Mrs "Sprayers" insurance company...what now... ???
    Originally posted by fruitpie
    Hi fruitpie, I am not an insurance guru but I can't see from the thread exactly what you have done about aproaching your neighbours, whether they agreed to contact their insurance company, whether you have contacted yours etc Maybe I've missed it but perhaps if you detail what you have done since Mr and Mrs Sprayer sprayed your fence brown then thse with insurance knowledge could advise. Alternatively, go and spray theirs in bright pink or similar and then they might respond
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 16th Dec 07, 11:02 PM
    • 199 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    fruitpie
    • I sent a letter to them opposite the next day outlining all the damage to both our house and car. She came over that night and said, dont clean it off, and that her Insuance was sending someone round . That was 2 weeks ago today and no visit or communication from anyone. They have been instructed not to speak to us or my next dr neighbour.
    • I rang my Insurance and as I have not got Accidental Damage on my policy, they will not help me. I do have Legal Cover though.
    • Mr & Mrs Sprayer supplied us with their insurance Co address to which I have written to. Also rang them, they told me that a claim had been filed under Liabilities and that its with the Underwriter. Mrs Sprayer refused to give us her surname though!!! but her insurance co gave it to me !
    • I have made a claim under our car insurance as am really worried about the creosote on my new car, so that is being dealt with - I hope that my car insurance folk will be able to claim on their house insurance ?.
    • My next dr neighbours have got AD on their policy,they contacted their insurance who have sent a Chemical co out to remove the paint from all their upvc's, and guess what, they can not get it off. So new frames and porch for them we think.
    • I just do not know where to turn to with this. Any ideas anyone?
    Last edited by fruitpie; 16-12-2007 at 11:10 PM.
    • jonesMUFCforever
    • By jonesMUFCforever 16th Dec 07, 11:51 PM
    • 24,095 Posts
    • 11,373 Thanks
    jonesMUFCforever
    I would get somebody round your house to give you estimates of how to clean up the damage.
    If that means replacing parts of your house instead of trying to clean the paint off so be it.

    When you have this information then use your legal advice team to draw up a writ for damages against your neighbours.
    The advice you have been given about not talking to them about is good advice.
    It is up to your neighbours to make a claim against the insurers not you.
    What goes around - comes around
    give lots and you will always receive lots
  • jamesd
    Be patient and give time for the insurance company time to work. It's non-urgent, let them suffer the aggravation of finding out that their experts can't clean it off and they are going to have to replace the UPVC. It'll probably take them a while to get to that point but they aren't likely to try to dodge, just be slow because it's not an emergency.
    • fruitpie
    • By fruitpie 6th Jan 08, 11:12 PM
    • 199 Posts
    • 24 Thanks
    fruitpie
    Hi all - Happy New Year.....

    Just a quick update:- I received a letter from opposite neighbours Insurance Company - telling me to send them reports or quotes. Seems like things are begining to move at last.
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