Civil Enforcement Limited - Lying about dates

Loadsofchildren123 · 13 November 2017 at 12:31PM

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 24th October 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 22nd October 2017. However they were dated the 11th October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates.

Don't understand the first two dates...... how can something be served before it's posted? Weren't they served on the 26th?

RustyRascal · 13 November 2017 at 12:46PM

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 24th October 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 22nd October 2017. However they were dated the 11th October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates.

Don't understand the first two dates...... how can something be served before it's posted? Weren't they served on the 26th?

They arrived at the property on the 24th October, so should it read;

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 11th October 2017?

Loadsofchildren123 · 13 November 2017 at 12:47PM

RustyRascal wrote: »

Dear Amanda

Regarding Claim Form XXX, I am writing to the court to complain that Civil Enforcement Limited (CEL), the Claimant in the above case, has deliberately backdated the Particulars Of Claim which were served separate to the claim form pursuant to CPR Rule 7.4 (1)(b).

The Claim form was issued on 2nd October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was therefore served on 7 October (5 days later, as set out in pargaraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 23 October (since 21/22 were a Saturday/Sunday). This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 24th October 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 22nd really, don't you mean 26th? October 2017. However they were dated the 11th October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates.

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 22 days, together with the covering letter. I would direct you to the fact that the claimant has also failed to include a signed N215 Certificate of Service which would be supported by a Statement of Truth, in a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the claimants file.

My understanding of the rules is that the Claimant may not file the Particulars late, and the sanctions in Rule 3.8 apply unless it applies for relief under Rule 3.9 (which it has not done). Consequently, the court should not allow the further Particulars of Claim unless and until the Claimant makes that application, or the court gives directions.

Setting aside the issue over Rule 3.8/9, I calculate that my Defence is due to be filed on 9 November (14 days from service of the Particulars on 26 October, as per Rule 15.4(1)(a)).

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Then I think add the wording I posted earlier here - it's important to put this complaint in context.

Yours Faithfully

Some suggestions

Loadsofchildren123 · 13 November 2017 at 12:48PM

RustyRascal wrote: »

They arrived at the property on the 24th October, so should it read;

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were sent under cover of 11th October 2017?

OK, so amend letter , I'll need to requote from it as I can't see it right now!

Loadsofchildren123 · 13 November 2017 at 12:53PM

The Claim form was issued on 2nd October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was therefore served on 7 October (5 days later, as set out in pargaraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 23 October (since 21/22 were a Saturday/Sunday). This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were delivered by Royal Mail on Tuesday 24 October, and so I assume (as I did not keep the envelope that they were posted in) that they were posted on 23 October. were sent under cover of 22 October 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 22nd really, don't you mean 26th? October 2017. However they were dated, and accompanied by a letter dated, 11 October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates on which the further Particulars arrived.

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 22 days, together with the covering letter. I would direct you to the fact that the claimant has also failed to include a signed N215 Certificate of Service which would be supported by a Statement of Truth, in a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the claimants file.

My understanding of the rules is that the Claimant may not file the Particulars late, and the sanctions in Rule 3.8 apply unless it applies for relief under Rule 3.9 (which it has not done). Consequently, the court should not allow the further Particulars of Claim unless and until the Claimant makes that application, or the court gives directions. Whilst the Particulars were received only one day out of time, under Rule 3.8 it is not in my gift to consent to accepting late service.

Setting aside the issue over Rule 3.8/9, I calculate that my Defence was due to be filed on 7 November (14 days from service of the Particulars on 26 October, as per Rule 15.4(1)(a)), and I have filed it.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Then I think add the wording I posted earlier here - it's important to put this complaint in context.

Yours Faithfully

Loadsofchildren123 · 13 November 2017 at 12:54PM

Do I have the dates right now? have you served your defence, I'm assuming you have as it was due 7 Nov?

Loadsofchildren123 · 13 November 2017 at 12:56PM

backdating isn't by 22 days in your case, or am I going mad? Should have been posted to you on 20th, we think they were posted on 23rd, so they should have been dated 23rd, so backdated by 12 days no?

RustyRascal · 13 November 2017 at 12:56PM

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

The Claim form was issued on 2nd October, stating that the detailed Particulars of Claim would be provided to me within 14 days after service of the claim form. The Claim Form was therefore served on 7 October (5 days later, as set out in pargaraph 5.7 of Practice Direction 7E which relates solely to MCOL claims). This means that the Particulars of Claim should have been served on or by 23 October (since 21/22 were a Saturday/Sunday). This would mean that they should have been posted by Friday 20 October. The time limits for service are clearly set out in Rules 6.3(b) and 6.20(b), and the requirement to serve separate Particulars within 14 days is contained in Rule 7.4(1)(b).

The further Particulars of Claim and covering letter were delivered by Royal Mail on Tuesday 24 October, and so I assume (as I did not keep the envelope that they were posted in) that they were posted on 23 October. were sent under cover of 22 October 2017. As such, according to Rule 6.3(b) they were served on the 22nd really, don't you mean 26th? October 2017. However they were dated, and accompanied by a letter dated, 11 October 2017. There is a witness statement to corroborate these dates on which the further Particulars arrived.

The Claimant has made a poor attempt to conceal the actual date on which it served the further Particulars by backdating them by 22 days, together with the covering letter. I would direct you to the fact that the claimant has also failed to include a signed N215 Certificate of Service which would be supported by a Statement of Truth, in a clear attempt to avoid the consequences, via CPR 32.14, of filing false evidence.

I cannot fathom any reason for the Claimant having backdated its further Particulars of Claim, other than to try to gain an advantage by making it appear that I have filed my defence late, or by confusing me into having to rush to file my defence prematurely. This is a serious matter and I ask that this is formally noted on the claimants file.

My understanding of the rules is that the Claimant may not file the Particulars late, and the sanctions in Rule 3.8 apply unless it applies for relief under Rule 3.9 (which it has not done). Consequently, the court should not allow the further Particulars of Claim unless and until the Claimant makes that application, or the court gives directions. Whilst the Particulars were received only one day out of time, under Rule 3.8 it is not in my gift to consent to accepting late service.

Setting aside the issue over Rule 3.8/9, I calculate that my Defence was due to be filed on 7 November (14 days from service of the Particulars on 26 October, as per Rule 15.4(1)(a)), and I have filed it.

This is a commercial Claimant pursuing many other claims of this nature. It must therefore have knowledge of, and understand, the Civil Procedure Rules and these sorts of blatant breaches should not be allowed because they prejudice Litigants in Person who are not versed in court procedures and the court rules. It is with some difficulty that I have understood the various obligations and time limits set out in the Civil Procedure Rules, as a Litigant in Person, whereas the commercial Claimant has no such excuse.

Then I think add the wording I posted earlier here - it's important to put this complaint in context.

Yours Faithfully

Absolutely spot on....

RustyRascal · 13 November 2017 at 12:59PM

Loadsofchildren123 wrote: »

backdating isn't by 22 days in your case, or am I going mad? Should have been posted to you on 20th, we think they were posted on 23rd, so they should have been dated 23rd, so backdated by 12 days no?

I've been struggling with the timings of things since the start!!!! I think they backdated them by 13 days?

Timelines of everything are that's happened so far are;

02/10 - Date of claim form
06/10 - Claim form arrived
Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 06/10/2017 at 11:01:35 (from MCOL)
Your acknowledgment of service was received on 06/10/2017 at 12:01:51 (from MCOL)
06/10 - letter sent to CEL to advise of change of address
11/10 - date on PoC
24/10 - actual date PoC arrived
Your defence was received on 06/11/2017 (from MCOL)

Loadsofchildren123 · 13 November 2017 at 1:41PM

RustyRascal wrote: »

I've been struggling with the timings of things since the start!!!! I think they backdated them by 13 days?

Timelines of everything are that's happened so far are;

02/10 - Date of claim form deemed served Sat 7th (for the 5 days you include weekends, which is what PD 7E says)
06/10 - Claim form arrived
Your acknowledgment of service was submitted on 06/10/2017 at 11:01:35 (from MCOL)
Your acknowledgment of service was received on 06/10/2017 at 12:01:51 (from MCOL)
06/10 - letter sent to CEL to advise of change of address
11/10 - date on PoC all of the late ones we've seen say this same date. I think what they've done is taken template PoCs, and Ashley Cohen (or whatever his name is) has signed them on 11 Oct. CEL then adds a different "Schedule" to each set of PoC when they send them out. It's an abuse of process of Johnersh highlighted.
24/10 - actual date PoC arrived
Your defence was received on 06/11/2017 (from MCOL)

OK, I think leave the dates as they are in my letter then (service of the PoC is "deemed" to be the 25th if posted on 23rd, but in this case as you've actually confirmed you received them on 24th then that's when they're served so you count 14 days on from that). I don't think you can stay silent on the date of receipt and say service wasn't effected until 25th (which would make them an extra day "late") because you didn't keep the envelope so can't say when they were posted but only when they were received.

Civil Enforcement Limited - Lying about dates

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